From Gin & Tonics to Good Trouble with Anouska Bhattacharyya

[00:06.8] Hi, and welcome to the She+ Geeks out podcast, where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work making the world a better and brighter place. I'm Felicia. And I am Rachel. And I'm so excited to tell you that our guest today is the lovely Anouska Bhattacharya.

[00:22.7] She is the vice President of programs at YW Boston, whose work sits at the intersection of equity and culture and collective liberation. Anouska has a gift for showing how power shapes the world in ways that's both profound and absurd, which is real.

[00:39.5] And she brings that brilliance to this conversation. Together we had some real, honest, and, frankly, hilarious conversations about the imperialist history of the gin and tonic, the radical joy of the Slutcracker, and, yeah, we actually did talk about boobs, so be warned.

[00:57.2] We did, though, ground all of these conversations, believe it or not, in the deeper questions of equity identity and what it means to build a more humane workplace. Yeah, we tied it all in together, kind of. Mostly. Yes, we did. We did. We swear. We really had a wonderful time.

[01:13.5] It was a thoughtful, frankly irreverent, and, just delightful conversation with the lovely Anouska. But before we get into that. Well, let's just get into it. Let's get into it. So what I really was wanted to talk about today, is our, upcoming workshop, which is.

[01:33.7] Is just. It's really exciting because, you know, we've. This has been a year, right? Like, we, you know, have been doing this work. Felicia and I have been working together unofficially since 2013. Officially got married in 2015. Yeah, we're putting on it.

[01:49.9] Put a ring on it in 2015. So we're a contract, really. But that is. Marriage is. Anyway. Yeah. Gosh. Should we get each other rings? Anyway? It's true. Okay, that's for offline talk, but maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Is this happening?

[02:06.6] Are we recommitting? Is this a recommitment ceremony? Oh, my God. We're doing a recommit. It's such a perfect time because, for those of you who've been with us for a really long time, you know, we started out as a women in tech group. In 2017, we launched the second part of our work, which is really focused on DEI in the workplace.

[02:25.4] And now that we're probably on some watch list somewhere. Definitely. Please. Not probably. Definitely. Well, and, you know, and we talk about this with Anouska as well, and we have with other guests, too. Is you know, with the end of Roe v. Wade and particularly affirmative action, there's obviously a huge attack on this work.

[02:45.2] That said, it is still really important to do this work, whatever we call it. And we've been thinking a lot about how we have evolved and sort of rolled with the changes over, frankly, a decade that has been wild with an H. Wild. Thank you.

[03:02.0] You're welcome. You know, really, like, you know, when we started, it was the girl boss era, right? It was like lean in. It was like hustle culture. And then, you know, 2016 happened and we thought we were going get our first lady president and we got the, oh, boy, were we wrong. Woof.

[03:17.1] We got the opposite. And it only got worse from there. All right, I know. And that sort of, that was a. Just a fascinating thing. And then me Too happened, right? And that was, that was real flashpoint. And then obviously Covid, after the murder of George Floyd, the sort of rising awareness around, anti racist workplaces, and now that huge backlash.

[03:39.0] Right? And so through it all, Flush and I have been together, ride or die, regardless of what coast we're on. And so now we're kind of in this really interesting space where we're like, you know, we actually have done a lot of work around change readiness and change management and thinking about the future.

[03:57.6] Maybe we should bring some of this work into our actual strategy work that we do for other people, our consulting and our training, with other people. So that's kind of where we're at, which is why we're really excited about this workshop that we have coming up in December, which is reimagining the future of work together.

[04:14.2] So with all that said, Felicia, do you want to share a little bit about it? Sure, yeah, I'm really excited about it because like you said, Rachel, it is definitely. It's drawing on a lot of the stuff that we already know, and we're exploring some new spaces together. So for anyone who is a regular listener, know that, our podcasting this year has also been a little bit wild, but I think it makes sense.

[04:34.9] And I think the future as a work workshop really is kind of representative of how we're trying to tie all that stuff together. So we're building on the strategy stuff. We're talking about, you know, workplace life, culture, you know, all that good stuff. And we're. We're bringing.

[04:50.1] I don't want to call it the woo in, but we're bringing in a little bit of that, like, manifestation and really, like, trying to be creative, which you and I have talked a lot personally about how, especially I think, like this year, the last few years even, it's been really a struggle to kind of get out of the grind and just like survival mode and actually bring back in ways to be creative.

[05:12.9] So that's what the idea of this workshop is all about. So we're going to talk about, like, where are we right now in 2025, starting into 2026, like, what's going on with the current work landscape and like, what's actually shifting in the work landscape? Because there, as you mentioned, a lot of these changes. But even this year, there have been a lot of changes.

[05:29.9] AI alone has been huge. But where are we at this point in time right now? And then we're going to go into discussing a couple of these different concepts and topics that are really big in futures thinking, such as future shock. I don't know if you want to give folks like a teaser for future shock at all, or if they should just sign up for the workshop and learn more, but I mean, yeah, I'll give a little bit of just a teaser if you're familiar with culture shock when you think about going to another country and the kind of shock that you experience.

[05:56.8] This is very similar to future shock, and we'll certainly get into it a bit more. But you can imagine that because we are experiencing so many different things that are for kind of in the future right now. What does that mean? Yeah, and then we're going to go from there into talking a little bit about like manifestation, intention, setting, but giving our twist on it, which is always, always, always grounding in research and data, which is, that's like our hallmark.

[06:19.3] That's how we, that's how we roll. That's the vibe. So we're not just giving you the woo without some real data behind it. And then we're going to really kind of think about what could and what should, in all honesty, a future of, work like a future workplace look like. What could that be like?

[06:34.9] Because the idea is that we don't want to just have change happen to us. We want to be change makers. And so this is going to be a really, I think, fun, unique, creative way to start that mental process and that, that creation process.

[06:50.2] And then we'll kind of tie it all together with a nice little bow at the end. So, yeah, if you're, if you're intrigued, like, check it out. It's something new for us, but like I said, it brings together a lot of what we've been working on. So I think it'll be, a really fun two hours of time together. Yeah, I agree. I am so excited for this because I've definitely been geeking out about all things, futures, thinking.

[07:10.0] And I think it's also really important to point out that the manifestation piece, While it is 100% people are thinking like it's the secret. What is so interesting? It isn't. It actually isn't. Yeah, it's there. We'll talk more about it in the workshop and we'll probably bring it up in, in other contexts as well.

[07:28.1] But there's actually been a fair amount of science that goes, with this idea of truly just envisioning a, place that you want to be in the future. And what I do love about this, and I just want to echo what Felicia said, because I think it's just a point that's worth repeating, is that it's so easy for us to live in a space of, frankly, just, you know, like stasis. Right.

[07:54.9] I mean, it feels like everything is so precarious. There's so much fear, there is so much anxiety, there's so much exhaustion. And so how do we come together and say no? Actually, all of this stuff that's being done to us, we have some agency.

[08:11.5] We actually do especially. And one of the things I love about this workshop is that I want to key on the term together. Because when we come together to create a space in a world that we want to live in, workplace or otherwise, it actually can happen. These things aren't just happening because, oh, it's not like all of these systems just always existed in the world.

[08:32.5] People manifested that stuff. Like, people worked really, really hard. I mean, if you heard of Project 2025, literally the word real manifestation right there. And this is working for them. This was exactly the example that I was going to use. I love that we did not plan it.

[08:47.8] We're on the same wavelength. We really are. We really are. That was such a great example of, like, how to manifest, you know, and it was not something that they. They may have just written it down, but this has been in the work. They've been working towards it for decades. Yeah, yeah.

[09:02.8] So we as people can do the same thing. So this is what we're here for. And, we just hope that you get a lot of value out of it. I'm so excited. I can't wait to get in there. And frankly, I'm really excited for 2026 because we got a lot planned. Yes, we do.

[09:19.2] Which we'll talk more about later. But for right now, let's get to our conversation with Anouska. So welcome to the show, Anouska. Welcome. Our guest today is Dr. Anouska Bhattacharya from YW Boston. Hello and welcome. Anouska, we are so, so excited to have you here. We about all the things, but let's just start off with your origin story.

[09:37.5] We want to know everything. I'm so excited for this story because I feel like I come across as a professional misfit, and I feel like my story sort of lends itself to that as a troublemaker who just kept learning how to make more and more good trouble as she grew.

[09:59.0] So the short version of the story is that I'm a recovering academic. I did the PhD. I have the masters. I was teaching. I was a professor. And I got disillusioned with academia and woke up one day and said, gosh, I wonder what would happen if I use this big brain to do something that was more community oriented.

[10:25.3] And so I've moved continents and time zones. And in lieu of being the professor that my immigrant parents always wanted me to be, I'm basically a community organizer with a regular salary.

[10:43.4] And I am, working at YW Boston. I've been here five years. I help my team and I help other organizations learn how to build equitable communities. Organizations, workplaces.

[11:00.2] The longest story is that, as you can tell from my accent, I was born in California. Shocker. I actually did not know. That was amazing. That was amazing. I was like, I know that. Oh, I don't know where this story's going.

[11:15.9] Yeah, California baby. There are VHS tapes of this face on a much shorter body. I'm still quite short, but a shorter body, but with a really bright Californian accent. So I'm gonna have to come visit you, Rachel, on the West Coast.

[11:33.0] I can't wait to hear Californian accent. My homeland. That accent was beaten out for me in the mean playgrounds of North London in the uk, which is where I grew up. I, was going to be a dancer.

[11:48.1] I was going to be a scientist. I was going to be a weather journalist. I didn't know anything about the weather, but I thought, how cool to make graphics move around. I wanted to, be a pop star for a bit. And then I sort of became humble and thought, no, I'll just be like a backing singer.

[12:07.1] And then my immigrant parents were like, no, you should go to university. And get a real degree. You can't go to performing arts school. So I wanted to write and be like a poet and write stories. I was also told by my mother that's not a real job.

[12:22.5] And that I could just read and write in my spare time. So I got a science degree. I am a, massive neurobiologist geek. And if you want to talk about organic chemistry today, we can, it's a hard pass, but thank you for the offer.

[12:38.4] Well, I mean, you said was. Sorry, what was that? Did you say neurobiology? Neurobiology, organic chemistry. Well, physiology. I mean some of those are okay, but I just remember I have a lot of friends from college who went into the sciences and I just remember organic chemistry.

[12:54.8] Like I never took the class, but I still remember the pain and trauma that they felt going through those classes. So it's potions class. If you've ever wanted to be a wizard or a witch, take organic chemistry always. But also because you're doing neurobiology, I have been like, going down this like consciousness rabbit hole and like, there is a lot of neurobiologists that are dancing in this little space and plant consciousness is even a thing.

[13:23.6] So I'm here for it. So. Well, that's probably another podcast, but, you know, 100%, yes. It's the stuff that like gives me energy is just thinking about how our brain is both a, computer and system and the place where hard sciences meet all the woo woo that you've ever heard about and dreamt about.

[13:43.8] And it's like, delightful. So, okay, thanks mom. I went and got a degree in, quote, unquote, something real. But I was also asking the question, why do we do science the way we do? And that was my sort of first institutional realization that I was definitely a hardcore troublemaker because my PIs all thought that I was trying to get out of doing experiments.

[14:07.5] And I just wanted to know why and how. And then a professor said there's actually a department that asked that question. So then I was like, oh, cool, I'll go get a PhD there. And so I did PhD in history of science. And here I am many moons later, in the fair isle of Boston, thinking a lot about what makes or who gets to draw the line between what is normal and abnormal.

[14:36.8] Because that was really the focus of my PhD. I looked at the history of psychiatry and thinking about the sort of social structures that mean that some folks are made to feel like they belong and others don't. And that is unfortunately, really hardwired in the way that a lot of, Western societies, many societies have been developed, which is a really sort of scarcity mindset about what survival looks like.

[15:06.7] And the great thing about knowing that is you can change those systems. Right. That anything that's been learned as a habit, as a way of being a norm, can be unlearned. And that's where the neurobiology piece comes in. That's where the behavioral health stuff comes in.

[15:22.6] And so even as I've taken a fairly circuitous route to where I am now, it's always wonderful to realize there are these pieces of my past lives that are plugging in and allowing me to understand the problem at hand and explain the problem at hand in ways that, I can bring other people in as well.

[15:44.6] So that's where I am now. Mother of two cats, lover of plants. Still, you can see them behind me. I still like to be on the stage. One might argue that my ascent into my leadership team is really fueled by my need to be on some kind of stage.

[16:04.8] An improv, like stage. I'm bringing audience in, but, I do. I was going to say I'm not afraid of the spotlight. No, I love the spotlight. I. I am happy to give a speech on any day about anything.

[16:21.7] Well, I. I will say we know that for sure. We do. Well. And, do you remember when we met? Because I think I met you first. And, yes, it was at that panel at. I think it was at Harvard, actually. And I was a panelist and you were up there and I was like, who is this goddess up here who is just doing it all?

[16:46.3] So I can see why you love a mic. You were born for it. And as is my wonderful better half business partner as well. Co host. And we've been on the panel as well. We have, yeah. We were on TV years ago. I know we were on tv. So fancy. Terrifying.

[17:04.4] I'm so sad. And that show is not even around anymore. I think it's so sad. But, yeah, it's actually still out there. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes. Oh, that's fun. Wants to see the two of us talking about all sorts of fun stuff. But. Yeah, yeah. And I remember you were actually talking about. I think it was like bias in science, gender bias, in particular in science.

[17:23.4] And I remember that so vividly. So it's you. Your path totally makes sense to me. But. But that's with me. Well, let's. Let's get. Let's get into some of the questions. So, in your lovely LinkedIn profile, you mentioned joy, leadership and community.

[17:38.7] Can you talk a little bit about what the intersection of these three lovely concepts means to you? Yeah. The reason I put that on my profile was because often I hear about each of those concepts separately, those structures separately. And for me, they are like a sort of triple helix of how to create change.

[17:59.5] So you have to be rooted in community. That's where all the data is. That is the data. Community is data. And you can't really have good data without community. So you have to be rooted in both the community that surrounds you by proximity, but also there's the community that you craft and you cultivate.

[18:22.7] And so, as someone who is international, someone who is South Asian, someone who's part of the diaspora, someone who is queer, all those things, someone who is a cat mom, like, there are many communities that I'm tapped into, and for those communities to be active, there are several things that need to occur.

[18:45.0] And so one of those things is leadership. And I don't think of leadership as that person who's standing. I mean, I've just talked about being on a stage, but I'm not standing above everyone and sort of telling them where to go. It's much more collaborative.

[19:02.5] And I think there are different kinds of leadership roles that you can be playing. You could be a weaver, you could be an organizer, you can be a healer, you can be, someone who's a visionary. So I think there are lots of different leaders that need to be, brought in, amplified, uplifted within the community.

[19:22.7] And then for me, my fuel is joy. We know that creating change is hard and it takes time, and you need to locate what is going to fuel you so that you can sustain yourself. And, you know, I.

[19:40.4] I love to laugh and I love to smile, but if I'm just smiling by myself and everyone looks sad, that's not joy, that's narcissism. So joy for me is also how I connect with folks. My love language is making Spotify playlists for friends, helping them get through things.

[20:02.3] And when someone gives me a little smiley emoji on, like, a meme that I send them, or if we're having a hard conversation at work and someone makes a little joke just to break the tension, I know that we are crafting something together.

[20:19.1] So I think there's a lot of authenticity in Joy, in what makes people laugh and smile. And for me, that is like the sort of root of how I get through my work. So if I had just two of those things, sure, I could make an impact.

[20:36.1] But to be sustainable and to feel authentic, all three of those pillars, they sort of create a little triangular stool and they really, they ground me in how and what I'm doing. Love that. Yeah.

[20:51.4] And I think, you know, the joy comes through so clearly and that's why, you know, we're still connected, I think all these years later. And Rachel's already mentioned how she first connected and then kind of looped me in. But really where I think I first met you was in, I guess it was 2019 at Our summit, which we were just chatting about before we started recording.

[21:13.5] And so for anyone who's in the know, we had this amazing event that we held. It was a kick ass event. It was kick ass. Yes, it was, it was, it was a moment, a singular moment as it turns out. But it was a moment and you were one of the speakers there.

[21:29.2] And you know, you've mentioned already your PhD was in the history of science. You've mentioned, you know, all the different things that you've been involved in and you obviously, as you said too, like, love to talk on lots of different topics. And I was doing a little bit of background research on you in prep for this and I was now worried about what you've, uncovered.

[21:46.0] Well, you already know because I told you, but, no surprise, but I mean I was really like, wow, I want to talk about all the things, so I'm just going to like list them off and then I want to see where we go from there because there's literally, I think we could talk about all the topics and there's probably more that I don't even know about.

[22:01.0] So you cover decolonizing, global health, the history of madness, queering the diaspora, and this is maybe my favorite, how imperialism built the gin and tonic. Me too, Me too. You know, and I think, well, listeners know and I think you know too, Anushka.

[22:16.3] But like my mom's from India so like, I feel like gin and tonic is like such a big thing for South Asians in a lot of ways. But where, where do we go? I want to hear about all of it. Where should we start? Like my goodness, I mean we have, we do have to talk about gin and tonic. Gin and tonic.

[22:31.6] Because that's good. Because I was going to say Felicia, you just, that was a knowledge bomb on me. I had no idea that it was a particular thing culturally. So I'm well I feel like I probably don't even know as much as Anouska knows, but I just know, like, from growing up around, like, my family and my mom, like, it's just, like, such a thing. And the funny thing I always remember with her is that she doesn't call it tonic.

[22:49.7] She calls it quinine water. And, And that's again, like, again, it's just. It's directly tied to colonialism and British imperialism and, like, you know, not being able to, like, drink the water and all that. And I'm probably just barely scratching the surface. So I really, like, pass it over to you. Take it away.

[23:06.7] This is so real, Felicia. Like, because I just came back from visiting my parents in London. They're getting older, and so I go over and take care of them, and I'm really grateful they're still around, and they still bug me so much. And, you know, that that's what love looks like sometimes.

[23:21.9] But my mother, as she's gotten older, has sort of doubled down into what she thinks of as medicinal and good for her. And I was so confused. She kept being like, bring me the Queen water. The Queen water. I'm like, mom, what are you talking about? I'm gonna start saying that Queen Elizabeth is gone.

[23:39.9] You know, I don't know when this episode's coming up, she's gone. And, What are you talking about? Queen water? And it's because she can't really pronounce quinine, or she forgets, or she doesn't care. Maybe she doesn't really care. And she buys these, like, little cans of tonic water. I don't even know if they have, like, quinine. Quinine.

[23:58.2] Queen water. But she associates that flavoring with some kind of medicinal property, and she'll just, like, chug a can every evening, and she feels like she's done something good for herself. And I only really got into thinking about the gin and tonic.

[24:17.7] I mean, I'm British. I'm a Londoner. For me, drinking a gin and tonic is as good as drinking water. It's funny that you mention the watering sort of properties. If I don't know what else to order, I'll order a gin and tonic. And I don't even really think it's drinking because it's a gin and tonic.

[24:34.7] It basically comes out of our faucets in London. And I had been studying the history of psychiatry. I was doing my PhD in the history of science department at Harvard, and through a lot of the sort of colonial history I was reading about, especially South Asian history.

[24:51.9] I was learning a lot about refrigeration, or rather the lack thereof. And so I'd heard through the history of medicine 101 Classes about the bark of a certain tree in South America being used to create quinine.

[25:09.5] Quinine, which was found to be antimalarial. And that becomes, like, a really helpful attribute in an empire that extends around the globe, is often in places where contagious diseases like Malaria can lead to you having a, you know, a less productive workforce, whatever, right?

[25:28.7] So they have this, like, Queen Anne going on, and I'm learning about refrigeration, and then I learn about the fact that quinine tastes terrible. Like, as it just. It is medicinal. I mean, it just tastes really bad. It's really bitter. And it's really hard to get these soldiers in.

[25:46.9] Like, the early 1900s. No, really earlier than that. 19th century and 1800s. It's really hard to get them to drink it regularly because it just tastes terrible. And so one of the ways in which you can adjust for flavor with many fluids is you can either heat them up or you can chill them down.

[26:07.2] Turns out heating quinine makes it even worse. But cheap sake, by the way, if you heat it up, tastes great. And that's why, actually, a lot of, like, we're learning so much. I can't help it. I love it, girl. So they're, like, trying to cool it down, but India is India, and there are parts of the country where things are colder, right?

[26:28.1] And they have a practice of chilling things, but that's not usually how you preserve food items in India. That's where a lot of the seasonings and the spices come in, some drying techniques, chutneys, et cetera. Right? So how do we chill this thing down? And, this is what I kind of love on an intellectual level about colonial history, is there's always some dude who just goes, why don't we just do this 100%?

[26:55.2] So what they started realizing was that you couldn't get enough ice down from the Himalayas to chill all the sort of quinine that folks needed to consume in the interim. Like, gin is basically like moonshine for colonial folks.

[27:12.6] They've got the gin, so they've tried mixing that in again. There's a ton of botanicals there. So you can mix those in to try and play with the flavour. Cool, cool, cool. But you really want to chill it down. They try bringing ice down from the Himalayas on the backs of these donkeys and these horses and these whatever.

[27:28.9] But it's too steep, and a lot of the ice will disintegrate or you can't get big enough chunks of it. So this dude, I can't remember his name now, he, says, well, there's a lot of ice in Canada. And if you remember, the British Empire extends all the way from the Americas.

[27:45.8] And what was the like, really, like, crappy thing you say? The sun never sense, and they're in a shit empire. Gross, gross, gross. But it does mean that they're in lots of places. And so this guy's like, let's just bring the ice in from Canada. So what they do is they essentially chip off these giant blocks of ice.

[28:06.2] Can I jump in for a quick second here? So I, know. So I'm in Massachusetts, not in Boston, but not too far away. It's not Canada. But I have something to add to this right now, just like, a little side note. So the little city that I live in, which is 16,000 people, called East Hampton, literally, we have a big pond in middle of the city.

[28:25.6] And, every winter, we have something called Winterfest. And they bring in people who do, like, the old fashioned, cutting out the blocks of ice when the pond freezes over and pulling out the big squares of ice. And I learned when I moved here four or five years ago that East Hampton and, like, this area of the east coast used to ship ice to India.

[28:47.1] And what they would do is they would cut out these big giant blocks of ice from our ponds that were, you know, polluted, with factory waste runoff and all that kind of stuff. I just flavor factory town flavoring. And then they would pack it in straw and boxes, and then they would ship it to India.

[29:04.7] For what I'm presuming you're about to get to with your stories, I just wanted to know. It's not just Canada. It was also like, America were like, we'll get in on this action too, because we got a lot of ice over here. So a hundred percent. It's just wild. Yes. The Brits, they love to defend a border when it's like their own.

[29:21.6] When it comes to other borders, they sort of see them as guidelines, right, Rather than rules. So whether it was Canada, the Northeast, I think wherever they could get a regular, easy, essentially free supply of this stuff, they pack it in straw, and they pack, like you said, these giant blocks in the straw.

[29:40.5] The ship would then leave the east coast of America, travel all the way south across the Atlantic, around the tip, the southernmost tip of Africa, up across the.

[29:58.6] The Indian Ocean to Places like Bombay or if they could get it a little bit further, it did take a little bit longer to like Goa and other sort of metropoles. I think they struggled to get it all the way around the Bay of Bengal into Calcutta.

[30:13.9] Because even by like, by those standards it was a, it was a long journey and a lot of it would melt. But it does mean that these blocks of ice in various sizes had like six month journey to get across the globe to help with many forms of refrigeration.

[30:30.9] But especially, and I think there are certain, officers in the British Empire who are very picky about it. Just like, there's always bougie people about lots of things. Right. It's sort of like the sort of early coffee bougie folks.

[30:47.2] This was like them saying, oh, maybe I had the East Hampton ice, you know, and they would be really selective about where they got their ice from for these darn gin and tonics just so that in the army they wouldn't get malaria. And I was, yeah, I was just taken by the fact that so many different communities are implicated in this.

[31:11.2] It always starts with, again, like, one guy is like, let's just transport ice across the world. Sure. But yeah, it's sort of, both a terrifying and complicated and beautiful story of how so many parts of the globe were implicated in the construction of this thing that you and I may drink all the time, Rachel.

[31:36.9] But has this really deep history. I will literally never drink gin and tonic in the same way again. And it never just you talking about it. I never really made the mental connection between the word tonic, as in the genotonic, and then tonic as in how we know it as a, as medicine. Yeah.

[31:57.0] And can we just also like, reflect on like, how amazing innovation is when it comes to certain things? Like, yeah, I mean, we're actually really like, keeping people alive so they can keep conquering. But also like, they could probably just like, still, I mean, if it was really keeping them alive, they could just like, maybe this is like a little bit of, you know, Darwinism.

[32:18.0] Like, if you don't drink it, like, you know, maybe you're not. You just drink it. And maybe it's a little uncomfortable if you don't have it with the ice. I'm just saying. Right, right. And it's proof that if they wanted to, they would. Right. Like, literally it had not been a practice of shipping ice from North America to South Asia.

[32:38.4] And this, this helped this practice emerge. And like you said, it's rooted in a Whole variety of things. They could have. Just. Just. Just take your damn medicine. Just take it. Just take the damn medicine. You know, if it was ladies, they would have been like, just drink the medicine. They wouldn't be going, even though halfway around the world, they wouldn't even give us medicine. Please.

[32:56.0] I'd like to hope. Because I hope. I do hope that things will change for folks who live in, like, bodies with uteruses especially. But I. I do think they'll, like, 50 years from now, there'll be something that we could have just been doing now that are, like, like, like next generation will be like, well, why didn't you Just the equivalent of, like, bringing the ice over.

[33:18.3] Like, what do you mean? That's how you treated cancer? What do you mean? That's like, that's what pain relief looked like. But, like, what do you mean? Women just had to suffer with no pain relief? Because whatever. Like. Well, I still think I was just talking with Mark about, my lovely partner about mammograms.

[33:36.1] Like, barbaric. I just got my first. You're first. Well, welcome to the club. And that's how you celebrate 40 if you're a woman. It is. Okay. It is how you do. You get a you. And yeah, I was like, this is. I mean, the lady who did my mammogram.

[33:51.7] Kudos was like, lovely, lovely. But I'm sorry, you want me to squish my boob in metal? Barbaric. It's barbaric. Call it medicine. I know. Isn't there a better way? Like, can we just shoot a laser at it or something?

[34:07.1] We can measure the depths of craters. We can go to the moon. Yeah, like, we can go to the moon, but we cannot look at boobs without squishing them to a pancake. And every time I get mine done, I think about women who. Or people who have, like, small chests, and I truly do not know how they do it.

[34:24.4] I just don't understand how it works because I'm a big chested person and it's hard for me. I can answer that question. And I will tell you because now we're just. Now we're just in the locker room now that we've just. Just switched to. I'm sorry, from gin to boo.

[34:41.9] It's a direct correlation. Now we have the name of the podcast episode, so that's good. Buckle up, folks. It's November 20th. Let's hear it. Give us the other side of the boob spectrum. Well, it's. Yeah, the other Side of the boob spectrum is honestly, It is a blessing that I have basically, like, no nerves in them.

[35:03.0] So I feel bad for folks that are very. Have very sensitive ones. So for me, it's like, you know, she's getting whatever she needs to get in there, and I'm just like. It's, like, slightly uncomfortable, like, but she's doing the Lord's work, trying to shove whatever I got in there.

[35:19.2] And thank goodness, though, that I don't have. Like, it's not painful, but I do. I think about people who are, like, super. Because there are folks that are super, super sensitive, and I'm like, what? This is like. I just love it there. You'll get to know this as you continue to age. And you're just go, like, just. There's always, like, the. The tucking and the padding. The tucking.

[35:37.5] Hold my breath and then hold your breath because it was gonna. Yeah, don't breathe. I sort of felt like, the way that, you know when you get, like, a pasta attachment for your KitchenAid and you, like, try and roll a pasta through. Yes. Am I pasta?

[35:53.0] Is this happening? Yes, but without my KitchenAid. But without breathing. No breathing. That's such a great point. Yeah. Also psd, that would totally mess it up, and they would not be able to see your boobs if you. If you breathe at all. Oh, and by the way, if you have dense breasts, these tests don't even matter anyway.

[36:08.6] Oh, hi, that's me. Hi. And then you get to have more. And then you get more of that, which is even more fun. And then they scare you and tell you you may have cancer. You may have cancer. Well, now they have signs that are like, you may have dense breasts. Don't panic. And it's like, well, then what the hell are we doing in here while I'm changing out?

[36:26.1] And that was the other thing. I wasn't given any, like, setup for what to really expect. And, like, again, it's this room where they do them all the time. So I'm just standing just in, like, a skirt. It was like, you know, the summer I'm standing in a skirt. Yeah. I was like, do you need to take my shoes off? Shit.

[36:41.4] No, it's fine. So skirt and, like, flip flops and then totally topless in this. Yeah. It's cool. You just walk around your booth and, like, the door is, like, opening and close. It's like. That's actually really special. My door was shut, but, like. Well, it was like a little curtain thing.

[36:57.2] And I just thought. I mean, again, When I'm making pasta, I at least have the decency to close the door. And when I'm doing that, that might be a more your. Your place thing, because mine is very, like. Mine is more like, you know, once you go in the room, it's like just the boobs are out, but, like, you know, in between, you have like, a nice little, like, a little robe, which is always.

[37:16.1] They have, I think, their color scheme for me, so it's like a purple robe. You're almost like your own little changing room. Then you have to, like, sit and wait while they look at your dense breast. You can, like, hang out in the changing room. It sounds very spa. Like, you know, if they incorporated it with a spa vibe, I could, you know, like, get us in, like, a hot tub and then have some major, like, measuring device in the hot tub if there was like, hey, you have to get your boob squished.

[37:45.7] But also you can just, like, stay here for the rest. Or maybe you don't want to allow and like, oh, well, let's. Let's think. Let's. Let's go. Advance noise pushing. You just get in the hot tub and there are sensors in the hot tub that can test whether or not. Yeah, yeah.

[38:02.1] New business idea, everyone. Let's go. I love this. We have such high tech bras that, like, do all these other things. Don't even get me started on, bras. Also, by the way, I feel like I've totally derailed the amount of money I have. Anushka, this is not on you.

[38:17.9] This is definitely on the hosts. It's our fault for leading us down this wild route. And I just. I'm just envisioning people listening, just hitting the forward. Like, are they still talking about that? What are they gonna talk about the workplace? We can go back. We can go back. I'm gonna switch.

[38:37.2] All right, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it hard. Hard pivot back. Okay. Which is great because it's. It's all. It's all connected. It is. So as you may or may not be aware, DEI is not so popular at the moment. I know.

[38:52.8] Shocking news. Wild times. And given the work that you do, we're huge fans of yw, so, And, yeah, and the people that that work there, just lovely. Including yourself, obviously.

[39:09.3] Just. What is. What do you think? What is going on? Is there still a place for it? How are you doing? Like, tell us a little bit about where you're at with that. I want to quote the Late great Shakespeare. A rose by any not the name would smell as sweet. Right?

[39:29.7] The acronym DEI was our most recent container for describing the work. Prior to that, we were talking about affirmative action. Prior to that, we've been talking about various kinds, civil rights, suffragettes.

[39:46.9] And there's a. There have always been systems, and they've always been incomplete because they've been poorly designed. And therefore, there's always been a place for folks to make interventions to calibrate, reform, improve and adjust systems so that we can all just live better lives together.

[40:10.9] And so I've never been sentimental about the acronym. I think it's important to have a name for things. You've got to name it to tame it. Right? As we always say. So, you know, there's a world that we're in where everything feels like it's on fire.

[40:29.8] And if I have to lose the name of this acronym, I'm not as worried as I am about real interventions that prevent us from naming anything and therefore being unable to tame anything. So, yes, at, YW Boston, we spent a long time.

[40:49.8] We did the whole conversation of do we just get rid of every mention of these words? That feels like an overreaction. What do we want to talk about? Who do we want to talk to? And what does it actually mean for us? And this is no shade on folks who legitimately are in danger of losing jobs, funding, et cetera, status, for using the acronym.

[41:13.7] I was just on a call this morning, with someone in one of our communities of practice who is a black woman in a federal organization, and her title has changed from being the, whatever director or VP of DEI to being the Director of Employee Engagement and, And having to scrub those terms D and E and I from everywhere.

[41:42.7] And this is what gives me hope, is that because the work still needs to happen because we still need to find ways to measure how workplace culture is impacting our bottom line, our retention rates, et cetera. There are always going to be new terms and new language.

[41:59.7] And she's like, yeah, we want to talk about employee engagement. Let's talk about employee engagement. Here are the KPIs I've developed to help us measure. That's the same thing that we're doing at YW is saying, okay, so what is it that we actually are trying to measure?

[42:16.2] Maybe this is going to catalyze us to being more specific, and really asking the question of what are we trying to track? What are we trying to change? We've just been going through a strategic planning process because why not? We're not busy enough this year.

[42:32.9] And we were like, let's get, like, hyper focused on women of color. Like, super focused. And even within that umbrella term of women of color, let's get real, real focused on non binary folks of color, trans women of color, women of color with disabilities.

[42:53.1] Let's really think about class here and who our audiences are. So, you know, we've made lemonade out of lemons. And I think this is a conversation that's going to continue to occur. Future historians will talk about this DEI moment where we lost those letters.

[43:12.4] I think I saw somewhere on TikTok, someone's like, do we have to take it out of the Alphabet, too? And I thought that was hilarious. I think that's called malicious compliance. Loved it. But, yeah, I think there is a world in which we emerge with, clearer, more concrete, more measurable ways of determining what our work is collectively and in individual organizations.

[43:40.9] And we use those to create new oddsticks of what is possible. I mean, I'm curious for y' all as well. You're sort of in this bicoastal space. We're speaking from Massachusetts, where I, have a lot of gratitude for the different layers of support and protection that allow us to do our work.

[44:00.0] But I know that some folks like y', all, you're in multiple states, and there are different rules and different norms about what is possible. So I'm curious if that's also something that. How you've sort of reconciled yourself with that.

[44:16.5] But we can definitely talk about that episode. I know that was definitely a podcast episode. I will say, as someone who lives in California, it is funny having a troll for a governor. He is, you know, our chief. Our chief troll.

[44:32.0] How do you really feel? No, no, I mean, I. Look, Newsome is an excellent troll foil for. Oh, I'm sorry. That was, like, whoosh. I thought you meant, like, in a bad way, like, under the bridge way, not, like, trolling. Okay. Yeah, he is like a. He's all right, then. Great.

[44:47.4] Yeah, he's the controller. Yeah, I'm glad we clarified that, too. Now, don't get me wrong, I still don't. Personally, I'm not really excited about him being president of this country. But, you know, the alternative is worse, probably. But any. That's a whole other point is California is also pretty protected when it comes to that stuff.

[45:04.7] But of course, there's federal issues that are impacting all the companies and organizations that you just talked about, and Felicia? Yes, please. Well, I was going to just say, like, I mean, as you were talking, I was kind of just reflecting because, you know, this. It's November, right? And this year has been quite child. And I was just thinking back to, like, January and February of this year when Trump came into presidency and things just started going off the rails and, you know, we started getting people, like, spamming us with our contact form and, like, threatening to report us to, What was the Elon Musk thing, Doge and like, you know, all this stuff.

[45:41.1] And, like, we definitely lost a lot of clients because they were in states like Florida and, you know, Texas or wherever. Like. Like places where it actually isn't Massachusetts and California and how those, you know, people are basically approaching this moment and thinking about things like dei and it is very dangerous in a lot of ways.

[46:03.2] And, you know, we had federal clients that we lost immediately because it was like, I had people write to us and say, you know, please take me off your newsletter because we can't even risk having an email newsletter with the words inclusion geeks pop up in our email right now. So. Right. Single name.

[46:20.6] Yeah, you know, we. We just changed the name last September and we were like, well, I guess we, maybe shouldn't have put inclusion in the name. But, okay, actually, I will defend that. I will say we did talk about it and we talked about, you know, culture geeks or something like that.

[46:37.5] But I will say that I am proud of us for having it, because at the end of the day, like, it's closer to when we were. SHE GEEKS OUT anyway, because we don't have the community side, even though we've tried to bring that back. And that's a whole other podcast episode of why we weren't able to do that.

[46:53.1] I know we have so many to do, but I am glad that we have that because it is still an important word. No, I mean, I, of course agree, but I know you do, kind of. That's how we. Again, it's like, you know, I'm happy to use whatever words are going to allow the work to move forward.

[47:14.8] And quite frankly, like, the market had been turning even prior to last November's election. Oh, yes, we are well aware. Right. We started seeing a backlash as early as mid 2023. It was affirmative action. It was affirmative action that did it.

[47:30.6] Same, same, same, same. And a lot of it was like, oh, well, I'm not sure that we can do, like, a training that has the word bias in it. And I was like, oh, okay. Sure. Like you know, or I'm not sure we need to say the word diversity.

[47:48.4] And, and so we've said things like variation, difference, difference. I literally, I like literally say difference. Because diversity is so triggering. Well, we had people ask us for civility. That became a hot topic at the end of last year and into this year.

[48:05.5] And it literally was basically they wanted microaggressions training, but they wanted us to call it civility. So I'm right on the same train as you are. I'm like, listen, if you want me to call it civility, I'll call it civility. It's the same exact. Still going to make you do something like literally same exact thing, same, same discussion, same work.

[48:22.3] But if you need, whether it's because you are trying not to, you know, get sued or go to jail or if you like believe that this is the new path, whatever, like as long as the work is still happening. That's kind of how I think about it. But. Right, right. And as a, like I think about a lot from like a pedagogical perspective because I was a teacher for so long, right.

[48:43.0] And I can't just go in ham and be like, let's talk deep colonial history or for a while I was also doing a little bit of physics because why not? I can't just go in with my most complicated formula or my most obscure reference.

[48:58.7] I sort of have to meet the students in the room where they're at and scaffold up from that. And so when we're thinking about the work that we all do, it is, it's learning. It's like teaching theory. And if this word is going to be the hiccup, let's get rid of that word, let's find a way around.

[49:18.2] Because all we're trying to do is teach you new habits, help you become the change maker you want to be so that you can develop new norms and we can call it toilet paper and goose. And it's still the same thing.

[49:35.0] Tonic is tonic is tonic. You know, I have a question related to this. I'm just a really curious what you think of this given that you've seen this switch from. And I would say this is probably more for like for profit companies a little bit more than non profit.

[49:52.7] So any of the for profit companies you work with, did you, did you start to question like their reason for doing this work in the first place? And I asked this because I think for me I came to this kind of realization that like maybe before it was about mitigating legal risk when it came to people with marginalized identities.

[50:18.1] And then with this year, with this switch, it became a fear of, like, lawsuits from people with non marginalized identities. We all know who they are. So.

[50:34.1] So it's always been about risk mitigation as opposed to, like actual culture change. Yeah, I mean, 100%. And I wasn't surprised. I wasn't surprised, like the, the folks who I, I thought were just doing it for lip service. I mean, not even to avoid being, like, you know, being in litigious situations with, you know, folks with marginalized identities.

[50:53.2] I think think it was a really cool buzzword for some organizations, for some companies in 2020. And I saw that in even how they approached us for our work. Right? They're like, yeah, just do a workshop for everyone.

[51:09.5] There was, a. I'm, naming no names. There was like a biotech company that's up and down the east coast that wanted us to do this inclusion training. And we're like, cool, this is how we do it. This is how we want to communicate about it. And they're like, yeah, yeah, just do it. They didn't understand why they had to be in conversations about it.

[51:26.8] And sure enough, there was like 75 people on the call, but some of them were at their lab, like, looking at the training on their phone. And we said, well, we're going to put you in breakout rooms. There's going to be discussion, there's going to be back and forth. And none of that had been communicated because it was for that company.

[51:43.7] It was never about doing the deeper work. It was about checking the box. And so it didn't surprise me when some of those companies have pulled back. There have been some places where I felt a little bit more heartbroken. Certain corporations where I was like, oh, man, you are throwing away your power right now because you've got more of a voice in this than you realize.

[52:07.5] And that's the thing that always sucks to me as a facilitator is seeing someone, like, throw away their power rather than walk in it. But the folks who have done the deeper work with us, by and large, they're still here.

[52:22.6] And they're the ones when, like, you know, the proverbial shit is hitting the fan. I can have a conversation with, with one of our, like, liaisons, and they're the ones saying, no, you're YW Boston. You guys say the hard stuff. Go ahead, we got your back.

[52:38.2] Or let us see if we can pull in our sponsor, or let us see if we can offer you a space now that the venue has redacted on that contract. And so they're these moments of gentle resistance that I'm seeing even within certain corporate spaces.

[52:55.0] That has been so heartwarming. That has been the other kind of surprise is to realize who really has your back, who's really down for this work. And it sort of added another layer of humanity that again, just keeps me going.

[53:11.4] That community part, the joy, leadership, community. That community realizing we're not clients and vendors anymore, we're community. And, we can hold hands through this. That is so lovely. And actually, that really is a nice lead in to my next question for you, which is, as someone who's doing all the things that you're doing and you know, you're passionate about equity and you're working in this space, how do you balance your life when things do feel overwhelming or maybe too heavy to hold?

[53:45.3] Like, how many answers should I give to this? All of them, thank you very much. I mean, this is why I like talking to inclusion geeks. Not just because the inclusion piece, but the geek bit. Like, that's really what we will bring the geek all day, every day. You had my geeky little heart for almost a decade now.

[54:05.3] I think that's as long as I've known you, make me cry. I don't know what you understand. Hold my geeky little heart. I do so many things, as someone who learned the hard way that if I just do work that I will burn the hell out.

[54:28.4] And I'll also be less effective at work. I have to fill my life and my time with many things. So I do have communities of all sorts. I have my recovering academic community, including some people who don't think that they want to leave academia and we're all just trying to pull them out.

[54:52.6] I have my plants and Facebook marketplace community where we're exchanging things that we've made and crafted and so on. I really love nerding out and going into rabbit holes about things.

[55:09.3] My current obsession, is this sort of love story that I think that the formerly known as a planet, Pluto and its moon have. And there's been new studies that have just come out about the relationship between these two celestial bodies.

[55:25.9] And I just. There is a. I need to get, I don't know, someone to help me write a screenplay for this or like Pixar, to be involved because there is a love story there between Pluto and its moon. Sharon. And I'm involved in a, sort of burlesque dance community.

[55:46.8] I have actually, like, a mini tap floor that I put in my basement in Watertown. And I wonder if people walk past my house and it's like, late at night and they just see, like, a lady, like, doing this, because they can't hear it and they can't see, but there's a window.

[56:06.0] I can just imagine that's actually happened. And that's making me feel so full. Like, what kind of mammogram is she getting in there? Oh, my gosh, a lot of mammograms. The right excited for. We'll go with that tap grab. Yeah.

[56:22.1] I mean, I'm in a burlesque reimagining of the Nutcracker, which I was actually trying to send the link to my colleagues at work, but we were on work Wi Fi. And, I guess the title of the show triggers various firewalls and so I can't communicate about it there.

[56:43.7] But we're on inclusion geeks Wi fi here. So Slutcracker is a show. I'm in a naughty version of the Nutcracker. And that brings me a lot of joy as well, because, well, one, the production company represents everything that I love, which is you don't have to look a certain way to be considered worthy of participating in this production.

[57:10.0] We have all sorts of body shapes and sizes and ages and gender expressions on stage together. And, there's something really lovely about being in a increasing state of undress around folks that, for me, disrupts the idea that the body is taboo, which is sort of the root of a lot of controlling surveillance healthcare policies.

[57:37.8] And so to be, like, shaking your jiggly bits with friends with fellow dancers and performers, flamenco dancers. We've got people in stripper heels, We've got people in point, We've got people with whips and ropes.

[57:55.8] Just reminds you there's so much more that we can be creating in life. And that's also where my brain is increasingly turning to, as the world turns to turmoil, is that art is a necessary part of life in that, artists have this muscle of innovating and creating where others just see the same thing over and over again.

[58:22.3] And so, you know, I dream of a world where all the, like, tech bros who are talking about innovation are actually bringing in, like, somatic movement therapists and like, trapeze artists and painters because they recognize the innovation that is part and parcel of being an artist.

[58:45.3] Versus the folks who have historically stayed just behind a screen doing the same thing. So, yeah, my life, I have a yoga teacher who says, you're never balanced. You're always balancing. And so I wouldn't say that I have reached some equilibrium of work, life, balance, but by bringing in these other things into my life life, it means that every day and every week, I get to craft what will be balancing for me that week.

[59:19.3] And if I screw up, I get to choose again the following week. Oh, my gosh, that is so beautiful. I have so many thoughts, and just one of them is. I mean, that is. I feel like that's kind of been the gift of the pandemic, is that.

[59:36.0] That we, I think, have so much a greater understanding and appreciation of our time and our existence in this plane. And so, you know, you're doing things that maybe you wouldn't have thought was something that you would ever do, because, you know, we were all sort of, like, living these lives in the 9 to 5, and, like, you know, maybe there would be some adjustment.

[60:01.7] But, kudos to you. I mean, honestly, the. The thought of, even showing my stomach to the. To the world gives me, like, hives. So I just say kudos to anyone that can, that.

[60:20.3] Is that free. And it's. It's a beautiful thing that, And I think, Felicia, you wanted to say something as well? Yeah. Well, it actually, it connects exactly to that because, I had two quick thoughts I wanted to share. First was around that, you know, the Slutcracker and what you shared.

[60:35.4] And what you shared. Rachel and I just wanted to quickly drop a little nugget, tying back to what we were talking about earlier with colonialism and how in India and South Asia, you know, a lot of the traditional dress, like, with saris and everything, it's got the, like, the little short, shirt and, like, you know, covers.

[60:54.4] But before the British came, a lot of women actually didn't wear anything on top. And that idea of modesty was only introduced through getting conquered and colonialism. So I love that, you know, with what you're doing with your burlesque show and the Slutcracker is in some way, like, it's all connected because it's sort of reclaiming that.

[61:14.5] That past that's been taken from us. And then the other thing I wanted to quickly mention was, have you seen. I know Rachel has, but have you seen the show called Station 11? It's ringing a bell. I don't think I've seen it. Well, put A pin in it.

[61:30.0] You're in your brain for later. But, it's. It's a amazing, beautiful, gorgeous show. It's all about sort of like post apocalyptic, like there's a virus pandemic. So it's, you know, definitely nothing that we would know anything about. But, it's about what happens after. And unlike, like 20 years after. Yeah.

[61:47.1] So it's like, you know, things have happened, A lot of. A lot has changed. And unlike a lot of other shows where, like, you know, like the Last of Us, for example, where everyone's just like, killing each other and like, like it's horrible and you're like, just kill me now if I'm a woman. Like, it's gonna really suck for me. The whole point with this show, I won't give any spoilers, but, like, it's really centered around, like, art and artists and musicians and people who are trying to, like, find community.

[62:08.8] And their sort of motto that gets repeated over and over again is survival is insufficient. And basically the idea behind that is it's not enough to just live and survive. You have to have art and be creative in order to make your life have any kind of meaning and worth, no matter what the sort of context is.

[62:26.4] So wanted to toss that out there because I feel like it was so relevant and like, popped in my head when you were speaking. So thank you. That feels like a movie that's right up my alley. And I immediately go to thinking, like, in a world like that, I just know that the decision makers were diverse in identity because in all the dystopic futures where it's like, well, the only thing we can do is kill each other.

[62:51.5] I'm like, whose brain said that in a while that we're like, well, what if we were to craft together and literally weave community by weaving in person? Those are the decision makers I want in charge of my country.

[63:07.8] Well, and all of this, upheaval and disruption and pain and harm and just all of it that's happening right now, art is, is. It's not only the salve, but is.

[63:23.0] It evolves, I think, so much more deeply in these times. So it's just really cool to see so much happening, even though there's just so much pain. There's always. There's always the balancing. There's always, all of that.

[63:38.4] And my gosh, of course, we've talked so much. And I'm just going to ask you one more question because I think it's really important how. And you kind of dance around it But I want to just really hear it specifically. How can we build community during these times, especially for folks, from marginalized backgrounds and people are working remotely, feeling disengaged, burnout, you know, when we're under attack by our own government?

[64:05.3] Yeah. How can we build that community? I love this question because it allows me to, like, say something that I say a lot of the time, which is, each of us have a different role in all of this. It is not for all of us. Even the three of us, we care about the same stuff.

[64:21.1] We live in very different bodies. We have different backgrounds, accesses to power, and so on. And so it's really about recognizing the power that you do have, the sphere of influence that you do have, and committing to doing something consistently in that space.

[64:39.6] I've done a lot of, powerlifting and strength training. And, I have a wonderful fitness instructor. Love you, Sarah Polarco. Who reminds me that in order to get stronger, it doesn't mean I have to keep lifting heavier and heavier, but I do have to be consistent, Right?

[64:59.8] And there are some days that I feel like I can lift a house, I can't. And there are some days that I really. I have to do things just with my body weight. But the point is that, that if I keep doing it, if I commit to doing it, however, I can show up that week, that day. That is enough.

[65:16.7] And that consistency is actually what moves the needle. So similarly, you might be waking up tomorrow thinking, ugh, the world is awful. It's cold. I hate everything. What is it that you can do in that moment? You know? And sometimes it's just taking care of yourself and that's enough because it allows you to get to the next day.

[65:35.7] There might be a day that you wake up and you're like, let's fucking go. Right? In which case, sure, go speak to your local state legislator, Write a new vision for the future, Create an entire media campaign, do what you need to do, but you don't have to do the same thing every day.

[65:55.7] And it really depends on who you are and the strengths you already possess. You don't have to grow a new list him to create change. I love that so much. Thank you. Felicia, do you want to. Do you want to end us? Yeah.

[66:10.9] I mean, we could keep talking forever, literally, unfortunately, bound by the social constructs of time, so. I know. Well, for now, we'll have to have you back. We'll have to chat more because, yeah, there's. There's so much. But, if People want to learn more if they want to find you, if they want to check out the Slutcracker.

[66:28.8] How can people, you know, kind of. Of ballot? Yeah. So ywboston.org is where you'll find YW Boston. My name is also fairly unusual. If you can type. If you can spell my first name correctly, A N, O, U, S, K, A.

[66:45.2] There's no H in it. And if you type Boston, I pop up because, you know, fine. I'm on LinkedIn. I have many social media. But you can usually find me at Anushka is online on most social media platforms.

[67:03.2] You can find me, tap dancing in the basement of my house in Watertown, if you go for the right walk on the right evening. And, yeah, I'm someone who often takes a while to respond to things because I'm doing so many things, but I ultimately do respond.

[67:20.9] And there's just so much more that's out there. So. So I'm really excited to have been on this podcast with you all. But, come find me. Come to the Slutcracker and bring me a really big bouquet of, flowers.

[67:38.2] The show is running through December and January, but I will be performing December 5th, 6th, 7th, and, December 18th, 19th, 20th. We're at the summit. All right. I may have to make a little trek out there.

[67:53.8] That'll be fun. Please do. And we'll get this. We'll get this out before, so. Well, yeah. That's so exciting. Thank you so much. So appreciate. This was wonderful. I've missed you both so much. Same. Like, I get to, like, sometimes speak to one of you.

[68:11.4] I even, like, went to your webinar yesterday just because I wanted to, like, hear your voices. Oh, I saw you on the webinar. I was like, hey. But, like, it's. It's a real delight. It's a real treat to talk to both of you, so thank you. Same, same.

[68:27.3] Did everybody listen? Did you hear about all the boob stuff? If you did, congrats. We had a hilarious time talking about it. So great. And hope that you learned a few things. I know I did. So, yeah, I hope you enjoyed listening to this interview as much as we enjoyed this conversation.

[68:45.1] And, boy, did we enjoy the conversation. But, yeah, thanks so much for listening. Please, please, please don't forget to rate, share, and subscribe. It does make a huge difference in the reach of our podcast and, by extension, our work. You can Visit us on YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn and sign up for our newsletter at, inclusiongeeks.com newsletter to stay up to date on all things inclusion Geeks. Stay geeky. Bye.