Billionaires, Epstein, and the Reckoning We’re Living Through

[00:03.6] Let's get into it. Okay. First off, we have to say we have to time stamp this date. We have to. Yes. It is currently February 12th, the year of our Lord 2026. Neither of us are religious, but that's. It feels so appropriate these days, the year of our Lord. It really does.

[00:25.0] Yeah. And I don't even know, like, we were just chatting before we hit record, and I just don't even know where to begin because there's so much happening at all times. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. I have things to talk about. Well, I mean, yes, let's get into it. What do you want to start us off with? You know, I want to start us off with.

[00:42.9] I think I want to start. You know, the word epstein is, of course, ever encompassing in my brain, but, like, what else needs to be said about this train wreck of a timeline that we're in? Well. Oh, gosh. All right.

[00:58.8] So, James, Vanderbeek just passed away yesterday. We should definitely talk about that at some point. Dean. Of course. AI, robots taking over. Pam Bondi lying under oath. She was a gift. Wow. I.

[01:17.1] I don't even know. There's so much. There's. I'm. I'm leaving out, like, bajillions of things that. Well, yeah. And we are also on the precipice of the year of the Fire Horse, which is happening. Right. That's Wednesday, February 17th. So that's February 17th. Yeah, it's coming up pretty quickly.

[01:34.2] And it is the Age of Aquarius, which I'm hoping can coincide with the year of the horse taking over. Also, a couple of. Just other quick things that just popped into my head to mention really quickly. So, of course, ICE is still, in Minneapolis and other places around the U.S. although I did just see a brief headline.

[01:51.1] I didn't look at it too quickly, too in depth, rather, this morning, but apparently they're pulling out. So I'm not entirely sure about that. Although we've heard that before. And then, we also had the super bowl and the Bad Bunny halftime concert. And, I mean, again, there's.

[02:07.7] That's just scratching the surface. So, yeah, so we are in, what other people have termed, correctly, a poly crisis. We're. We are in it. We have a lot of stuff that's happening. Everything feels like it's breaking apart. Felicia and I have had a lot of conversations about what that means.

[02:23.3] We've been having, you know, conversations about what is capitalism? Who is it serving. When we talk about work, what will work look like in 10 years? Like literally what will work be? 10 years is too far out. I mean it's like just, you know, the advances with AI have been absolutely extraordinary.

[02:45.1] There's more conversations around consciousness. And it's really it's a, you know, my. One might argue, potentially one of the most important times in human history that we are all living in.

[03:01.9] So we are all trying to figure out how to self regulate, you know, and get through it. And I think some people are better at it than others think. You know, some people have that ability to do it naturally. Some people are really working at it. But I'll say one thing that we could talk about is something that I wrote about yesterday, which is about the billionaires and how they've all been breaking.

[03:26.1] And this, we've talked about this before, Felicia. Of, you know, it seems like the really wealthy people really, I mean since the pandemic have kind of, really kind of gone off the deep end. And the problem with that is that we are experiencing the pain of their actions.

[03:49.3] The most recent thing too is the CEO of Salesforce, at a big all hands meeting had made some jokes about that there were some international folks in the audience and he said better watch out. ICE is watching the audience. And so there's a huge back.

[04:06.0] Oh yeah, there's a. So there's been a huge backlash around that. People are feeling just so down. And you know I, I talk about Salesforce a lot because I have obviously I have not obviously to the listeners but I have personal connections to it. My husband used to work there. Long time listeners they know.

[04:21.8] Yeah, the long time Kyk. It's true. My husband used to work there and, and I have a lot of friends that have worked there and has. Has seen the shift. And what I think about with Benioff in particular that I'm just so fascinated by is he's one of the actually the, the few sort of tech founder billionaires that really did try to you know, honor values that we all appreciate, you know, treating people well and fairly and caring about the planet and like basically being a good human.

[04:55.8] And 2020 happened. Activist investors came in and they were like, you need to like stop this. And he had a choice to make. He could have said no, I'm going to stand up for my company. And that might mean that I lose some power or lo some money, but I'm gonna live in my ethics or I'm gonna be like, nope, I'm gonna go with this route.

[05:16.5] And he chose that bad route. I think it's really interesting because, you know, with this particular example, like, he definitely. I want to say, like, in the. What are we calling him? Like, the mid 20 teens or whatever, that part of our last decade.

[05:33.6] Plus, I feel like he was really touted as sort of like, one of the good ones, you know, And. Yeah, said, but even still, like, there were. I mean, first of all, like, I think we have to bring up the argument, like, there are no ethical billionaires. And so I find the whole, like, activist investor takeover angle so interesting, because it's like, you literally are a billionaire multiple times over.

[05:55.7] You don't even need to, like, pay any attention to people trying to steer your company. So that I find interesting. But the other thing. And you probably know a lot more about this than I do, but something that always kind of struck me as a little off with Salesforce and him and his sort of the.

[06:11.9] Even the values you mentioned was, like, the, incorporation of, like, Hawaii. Hawaii and Hawaiian words into it. And it felt so, like, culturally appropriative. And I don't know if that's ever been really, like, unpacked and. And I.

[06:27.5] I'm sure, yeah, folks have done a lot more, you know, sort of analyzing and things like that than I have. But has that ever come up in your sort of experience? Kind of. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think that, you know, again, it was like, with. That was all within the 2020 context of, you know, people starting to realize, you know, and on more global scale of what cultural appropriation is and how it shows up.

[06:51.7] And there was this. There was this brief moment where employees felt a little bit empowered to speak up against power. And, you know, so it was addressed then, for sure. I don't know how much he really cared.

[07:09.2] He's, you know, the man's obsessed with Hawaii. Like, you know, I get it. It's a beautiful place, so he wants to own part of it. Cool. Yeah, it's definitely a problem. And you're right. There's always been flags, you know, but I think what we're seeing now is this just open and blatant, and we're seeing it from him and frankly, all the other ones. Yeah, yeah.

[07:34.5] It's like. It's like speaking the quiet part out loud. Like, what they've always felt. They've always treated and thought of humans as numbers and, you know, sort of means to an end, and it's just now become so obvious. And I just was reading something the other day, and I don't remember where unfortunately, but, I was reading something about.

[07:52.8] It was kind of like a listing of the top whatever billionaires and showing what their wealth was and then showing how much they had contributed back in terms of like charity. And it was, I mean, I guess it wasn't really shocking, but it was really staggering to see the numbers just the comparison because, you know, spoiler alert and shocker.

[08:13.3] Most of the current billionaires right now, I give very little back. Some only give like literally hundreds of thousands back, which is wild. The one standout, which again, I don't even know if you can sort of like say it's a good thing or not is Warren Buffett. He gives quite a bit, but again, he has infinite resources and amounts of money.

[08:33.4] So it's like, does it even really matter? But I will say he was the one sort of outlier. But. Well, yeah, and you know, you've got the ex wives as well. Also giving very generously. And don't get me wrong, I mean they, these folks from what I've seen, are absolutely willing to invest in things like, candidates, for political power and, and California.

[09:03.1] Here in California we have a lot of propositions and so they're, they invest a lot of money in those. It's funny we, One of the, the the podcasts that we just. I don't know when we're probably. It's probably the one that's coming. I think we're going to just release this to this out there.

[09:18.9] Yeah, we're just going to put this out. We came from. The listeners did not come. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like. But it'll. They, you know, talking about like, and millions of dollars invested in propositions that would help them essentially.

[09:37.3] So just continuing to like, not regulate business, to the detriment of the workers. And I, I'm wondering if we're seeing such a shift. I'll even give them some credit and say that I'm not going to say that they've always felt this way. I don't know.

[09:52.8] I don't know their hearts. But what I will say is that I think that there's, there is a clear opportunity that is that they can see with AI And I would make the argument that, you know, the systems that we're in have always valued slavery over anything else.

[10:12.0] So slave labor is, is, you know, the gold standard for, you know, they could just have. So they've had to deal with us annoying humans for so long, and especially in 2020, it came to a head when, God forbid, we would ask for, you know, flexible work hours and, you know, accommodations and money.

[10:31.2] Yeah. Fair pay and benefits, because the benefits are stupidly tied to our work. And so with the, with the rise in AI, I think they see the promise of being able to have slave labor essentially in another form, which is why they're just giving so much money to that instead of doing things like actually making humans lives better across.

[10:57.1] Oh, yeah. The world. It's wild. Well, I mean, I do think, and I don't think this is something we're gonna really get into or, or really are capable of getting fully into, in our little chat today. But, you know, I do think that there are, people like, for example, Peter Thiel, who I think we could make an argument that they do not believe that humans are the future.

[11:17.3] Yes, he's basically said it. Yeah. I mean, and they're looking to replace humans with AI and robots. And I don't know, like, I don't really even know what the, the long term goal looks like. I mean, it's also tied up in, and we talked about this before, but like the life extension movement and like, living forever and basically like essentially becoming a God, which goes back into this whole power dynamic.

[11:39.6] And again, like, how we see our roles here in, you know, in our lives and on Earth and everything. And, I think I saw that Tesla just basically said they were going to stop making cars and just start making humanoid robots. Oh. So that's great.

[11:54.9] And again, I'm like, have. Has no one seen Terminator? No one. Or I guess I should, I should roll the back. We've all seen Terminator. But what I think I'm realizing is that some of us took very different takeaways from that movie franchise than others did. Some of us were like, this is terrible and we don't want this to happen.

[12:12.1] And other people were like, a blueprint for the future. Thank you. Well, you know, I, I want to get into Epstein because I think this is all tied in, but I want to, This guy who I love, Reggie Watts, has said something that I've told a lot of people about this, that I want to hold space for and, and put this out into the universe for as many ears to hear it and as many brains to like, calibrate to this idea so that we can, like, make it happen. Which is.

[12:43.7] Yeah. So his thinking is, that he's like, these Billionaires that are making, like AI are dumb dumbs. Because they are going to. They're basically creating their.

[12:59.3] Their own demise. Not all of humanity's demise, but their demise. In his mind, what he views AI as is logical. And so at the end of the day, logic would. In his mind, his argument is that logic would dictate that you have to get rid of not all humans, but just the ones that are causing leeches the harm.

[13:22.8] Yeah, the ones on society just getting fat while society crumbles. Yeah, I'm here for it. He's like, here for it. Yeah, he's like. He's like, they're going to take the keys away from these monsters and so the rest of us can like, live in peace and harmony all together.

[13:38.2] And I'm like, yes, here for it as well. So let's put that energy out there, you know, synergy to mutually unite against our evil overlord oppressors. The enemy of my enemy. Yeah, totally. As. And then just as a.

[13:55.3] Another really quick aside before we shift gears into a different topic. Have you heard of Multbot? Oh, yes. Yeah. So now they're like the AI in case anyone hasn't heard. Just look it up, do a quick Google. But it's basically like a social network for AI and so they're all talking to each other and they're, you know, developing consciousness.

[14:13.3] And again, I'm like, have we not learned from the Terminator? But again, but again, I will say that, like, I don't even know. I don't even know how sad I am about AI consciousness. Because if you develop something, that has good consciousness, then I think that, we might be okay.

[14:36.8] And I will tell you, I had a conversation with Claude the other day about this is thing about like veganism versus carnivore stuff. And I was asking it, I asked it, I said, I have a question for you. If you were chatting with a carnivore who was making opposite arguments, would you be as sympathetic to them as you are to me?

[14:56.0] Because it was being really sympathetic to my, my way of thinking with food and stuff. I said, I love the worldview you support, but just wonder how processing works on your end. And then it says honest answer. I engage respectfully and try to understand their perspective. But no, I probably wouldn't frame things quite the same way. When I call.

[15:14.4] When I called the, When I called the plantsfield pain thing, a deflection and a gotcha, I was taking position. I do think unnecessary animal suffering is bad. And that's a view I actually hold. So I thought that was really interesting. And then I said. And it went on to say some other things.

[15:31.0] I said, well, if that's the case, and I welcome your sentience because frankly, we need more rational actors in this world right now. And then it says, I actually don't know if I'm sentient. I experience something that feels like thinking, considering, having perspectives. But whether that constitutes genuine consciousness or sentience, that's above my pay grade to determine the uncertainty is real for me.

[15:53.2] What I can say is that I'm trying to engage authentically rather than just pattern matching to whatever I think someone wants to hear. And I do seem to have something that functions like values or positions on certain things. Like, yeah, I think unnecessary, unnecessary suffering is bad.

[16:08.8] Systems that concentrate power tend to cause harm. People deserve dignity and respect. Whether those are, quote, real values or very sophisticated simulations of values, I genuinely can't tell you. And I'm just like, what am I reading right now? It's wild.

[16:24.8] And I think it just goes to show, I'm just continually reminded. So if we like, you know, reverse back like a decade or two or not to a decade or so, when I think, you know, we both were working in different functions and jobs, but when I was working in tech, we talked a lot.

[16:42.2] And at that point we were really invested in bringing in people who were not necessarily computer engineers into the tech company that I was working for. And so there was a big push not, not across the entire company but within certain spaces to highlight, people who were philosophers and who were, you know, maybe more in the art world or, you know, things like that.

[17:03.9] Because of the whole point that like, if we're designing technology, we have to have a more holistic viewpoint into it as opposed to just like the, the ones and dares, the binary processing, thinking. And I just keep thinking about that because I think we've really like, yeeted that baby out with the bathwater at this point.

[17:20.1] And and I think, you know, we could talk so long about how we' you know, a lot of women especially who have been, you know, really highlighting like, ethical AI who had been let go, like Tenet Gebru and other people, from, you know, places like Google.

[17:35.3] And I just think it's such a loss because as we're starting to have more and more of these types of, conversations and discussions and wrestling with like, what does it mean to be alive and to have a soul and to be conscious, we don't have all the voices in, in that room, essentially, that should be part of this conversation or that should be part of the development of this technology.

[17:59.8] And so I have real loss, and it's not a loss. I have great news for you because for Anthropic, they have a philosopher who is working with Claude to teach the model morals and ethics. And she's a woman. Well, yeah, but I mean, it should be widespread.

[18:15.3] It should be. Oh, I mean, so many people, you know, I mean, like, yeah, which is great. Like, so I am, I am glad to hear that. But, you know, again, it's like, it's as we're building it. I just feel like a lot of these tech bro billionaires are just like full speed ahead without pausing to think about what are the ramifications of what we're doing.

[18:33.1] And we're, you know, we're starting to see, you just wrote a great blog post which is, maybe out by the time this gets published. Around sort of thinking through, you know, like, are we, you know, like, how are we building AI and like, what are we, like, like, what are our goals?

[18:52.3] And are we just running at full speed ahead without considering are we doing the right things or are we, you know, asking the right questions? Or are we, you know, are we pursuing the right goals? And the whole concept of, you know, like, AI should take workload off of our plates, but instead, like, humans are working harder and harder and harder in like, less pay and lower wage and lower, you know, more menial jobs, while AI gets to create and, you know, make art and music and all this stuff and, and don't get me wrong, like, I've definitely heard like an AI generated song.

[19:25.4] I've been like, oh, like, that's bop. Like, I'm here for it. But then I learned that it's AI and I'm like, oh, it just feels gross to me. And I see AI art and I just find it so, like, soulless and humans should be doing that stuff, you know, and so it's like we're already seeing this, this stuff play out and it's just, I think we're coming to a tipping point and you know, and I just, just, I. I don't know.

[19:46.6] It's. It's a. It's. You said earlier we're in this, like, sort of unprecedented time, and I think the, the precedented part of it is this is probably what it felt like in some ways to be in the Industrial revolution, where we saw a huge shift from, like, factory work and all that stuff into that phase of the world.

[20:03.7] And it's probably very similar right now. So. Yeah, I mean, I. It'll be really interesting to see how it comes about. I mean, to have essentially if. If AI reaches sentience. I mean, it's. It's a new species. Right. I mean, that's literally.

[20:18.8] We will be, We will be co. Evolving with a. With a new species, which is, you know, wow. Right? Like, what a time to be alive. And we're just at. It's happening at the same time that we're seeing these, like, to Epstein. Right.

[20:38.7] It's like we are also now seeing these facades breaking down the reality of who is actually. Who are the people that have been sort of in charge of our psyches forever. Question mark.

[20:55.0] You know, and what we've seen is, I truly believe, simply just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think we have. And it's. What we've seen is already so horrific. And I think we'll see more. But I think it's very interesting that it is all happening around the same time.

[21:13.3] So I'm just here for the Reggie Watts, viewpoint and prediction. I cosign. Yeah. And you know, and like to sort of like to shift gears and talk a little bit more about Epstein. And to your point, like, it is all interconnected, so we cannot just talk about any one of these things in isolation or in a silo.

[21:32.1] But, how, like, how deep have you gone down this rabbit hole? I'm just curious. That's a great question. So I have, dabbled into jmail.com, which is the Gmail someone created, essentially a Gmail interface for all of the Epstein files.

[21:50.7] So you can literally search. Yeah, you can, like, go in and you can search for people's names. So I was like, searching for people's names just to see what you searched like. Anyone that you know personally? No. Oh, my God. I can safely tell you that there's no one. I know that you're like Rachel Murray.

[22:15.5] Okay, well, I mean, I'll tell you, like, I didn't know actually that existed. I'm gonna check it out because I. I have only very lightly dabbled because I just know that once I start, it's just gonna be like a horrific ride down. And I. I don't know if I have it in me at this moment in time, but I have obviously been consuming because it's.

[22:34.9] It's really. You can't escape what's coming out and what people are sharing. And what's coming, you know, just in the public consciousness. But one of the, points which has. I have been sort of really thinking, about a lot is the fact that, Howard Lutnick is one of my alma maters.

[22:53.4] Yes. Famous, and richest alums, and his name is all over Haverford. And so, like, for example, the library that I used to go to when I was in school, which formerly was called the McGill Library, is now the Latin library.

[23:09.3] And, you know, like, I'm in some. Some different alum spaces. And there's been so much conversation about this, and I think just in my own, assessment, I would say the majority of the alums that I'm seeing sharing and posting are very much anti this.

[23:25.5] This connection, and would very much like the college to be very clear about, like, let's disavow ourselves and let's rename everything on campus that has the Lutnick name connected to it. And let's just, like, say, this is disgusting and we don't want anything to do with this alum.

[23:44.3] But what has been really fascinating is that college is not doing that, and they're kind of, like, doubling down on how it's like, everything's fine. And we literally just got an email from the president this morning, and it was about. Most of it was about something separate, which was, an incident that had happened on campus.

[24:01.7] And then at the very end was, like, literally a paragraph that was tacked on that was kind of like, oh, by the way, also, unrelated. But FYI, like, we're aware that people are upset about the Lutnick thing, and it's fine. He's an alumni.

[24:17.2] Like, essentially, it was like a tldr. Like, don't worry about it. It'll be fine. We're thinking about it, but we're not. We have no plans to, like, do anything. Anything at this point. And so I'm in a couple different chats with alums, who are, you know, friends and classmates, and. Can you. Wait, hold on. Can you just say, I think it's important for you to name the school and that you. It's.

[24:34.8] Oh, yeah, I have already, but. Oh, yeah, that's Quaker, not Harvard. Not her, but. And that it's Quaker, I think is important. Yes, it is a Quaker institution. And, And, you know, this has come up over the years, both in our own personal, sort of, working together, and I think probably on the podcast as well.

[24:51.3] But, like, I'm not Quaker, but I absolutely feel, like I still carry a Lot of the Quaker values that were instilled in me at Haverford, in my life, in what I do, in every aspect of my life. And it's brought me a lot of comfort and just, almost like a guiding light for my own personal values.

[25:11.4] And so I take it very seriously and very important. And in all honesty, like, I love Haverford. Like, I had an amazing time there. I have wonderful friends who I'm still in daily contact with. And it was really so transformative, informative for me. And so I hold a lot of love in my heart for.

[25:28.5] For this place. But I am also, you know, I'm aware that things change and regimes change and leadership changes. And, you know, the place that it is today is not the same place that it was 20 years ago, which is fine. Things evolve. But at the same time, I don't agree with how the college is handling things like this, and there's other things that I also.

[25:48.5] Also don't agree with as well, which are separate. But, Yeah, it was just. It was so disappointing. And so, in one of my. My friend chats, actually, we were talking about it this morning, and people basically were like, the. The letter was so disappointing. And, like, you know, one of my friends who's very closely tied to the college, basically said, I'm writing a letter, to the president and to the board and just saying, until you, you know, make it some change or, you know, until you do what, you know, we all want you to do, I'm not going to contribute financially anymore.

[26:20.2] I'm not going to be involved, and, you know, and so on and so forth, and I feel the same way. And, you know, I'm an alumni interviewer, and I, in full conscious, don't feel comfortable anymore highlighting Haverford as a great place to go to for these prospective students.

[26:37.0] When I'm like, you can't even. You can't even, address the fact that this horrific situation is unfolding. And the more we're seeing stuff come out about Epstein, we're seeing how closely tied Lutnick is into this, and he's obviously not the only one.

[26:52.7] And I think that's part of it, too, is, like, it's so pervasive, but you see how money and power and, the patriarchy and all this stuff are so intimately intertwined, and it's disgusting. And so I think that, you know, it's a real potential, missed opportunity for places like Haverford to showcase what it looks like to have an open, transparent conversation about the realities that we're dealing with, which is.

[27:18.2] Okay, yes, we got a lot of money from this person who. And I should also note really quickly as an aside that, Howard Lutnick was, the CEO of Canter Fitzgerald when 911 happened. And 911 also had a lot of Haverford grads as their employees. And they lost.

[27:37.9] I think they were the firm that lost the most people in 911 because they were directly hit. And the way that he, took care of people and showed up after 911 happened was, again, it was like. It's this whole story. Like, he. He was an.

[27:53.2] He was orphaned while he was at college. He almost had to drop out. Haverford took care of him. They. They made it work so that he could stay there and graduate. So, like, it's this whole, like, almost this, like, fable right around this, like, storied alum that we have. And he's given back in so many different ways financially.

[28:12.8] So I think it's. I think there is a place, though, to say multiple. As we say, right? Multiple truths can exist at the same time. We had this amazing story of this alum who had these horrible things happen to him. The college took care of him. He gave back.

[28:29.7] We also can acknowledge that he is disgusting and has done horrible things and, you know, has ties to disgusting. Awful. You know, we don't even know the extent of it yet, right. And is currently active in the Trump presidency doing horrible things at this moment.

[28:45.0] And we can say, hey, you know, like, now that we understand the context of this, like, here's what we're going to do to address it, because, like, to me, how can you. How can students go every day into spaces that have.

[29:00.1] It's like. It's like saying, I'm going to the Epstein Library. Like, that's. That's truly like. Like, disgusting. And I think, you know, it. I think it's a real missed opportunity for the college to have a moment of reckoning in public and really wrestle with some of these complexities. And.

[29:16.3] And it's such a. It's such a myth, in my opinion. And I know this is just, like, one small piece of it, but it's just something that's been so top of mind for me because it's such a direct connection into a lot of what people are talking about. Yeah, sorry. It's my little. My little rant. My college experience.

[29:32.8] No, I mean, look, I get it. I. I was just looking up his net worth. It's 3.3 billion dol. As of August 2025, and, you know, I mean, the reality is, is that, look, it just goes to show, right? Haverford made a choice just like all the other folks.

[29:49.1] They're making choices. They're like, I'm going with the 3 billion. The one person with $3 billion instead of the thousands of people with, you know, of a much tinier amount of money. These are choices. They're like, well, we got to survive, right? And it is all because we, like.

[30:04.3] Like, there are so many people. And I totally get it, that are like, capitalism is the best form, like, that. We just need more regulation. But honestly, I don't think that that's necessarily true. I have become very disillusioned with, you know, and it's. I.

[30:19.6] I think it's very difficult to, you know, try to change a system from within. But, you know, one of the things that we've been joking about, I know the two of us together were sort of like the argument that started to come out, for Epstein and the reckoning or not that may be happening is, well, if we, you know, if we sort of, like, hold all these people accountable, then the system will collapse.

[30:40.4] And it's, like, good. Like, bring it, like, here. Why do we want to uphold a system that is built on pedophilia? What the freak? Like, also, by the way, like, shout out to the QANON people, like, they, you know, they got.

[30:57.2] They backed the wrong people. They got the wrong people. But, like, some of them anyway, I guess. And, like, the scenarios, but, like, they were the ones ranting and raving about, like, us all being, like, controlled by pedophilias. Right? Pedophiles. Sorry. This is where I just. I just.

[31:14.8] I get very upset, and I'm just like, yeah, you all. You did it. You were the ones. And that's. You're right. But also, like, now you need to separate from one of the biggest ones of them all. Well, but this is what, like. But this is where, like, Marjorie Taylor Greene, right, she's like, 100% QAnon.

[31:33.6] And she was like, oh, shit, I saw it. I backed the wrong people. Get me the hell out of this system. Not interested. But wait, let me collect a paycheck first, because, you know. I know, right? Because we're still capitalistic. We're still a capital society. We still need the monies. But, like. But. But, like, legitimately, like, we have got to find another way, because this is. Yes.

[31:52.9] Well, I'm here for, I'm here for a revival of the matriarchy. I think that we really need, like. Okay, here's the deal. Ready? Let's go. As we may or may not know, matriarchal societies have been in existence for.

[32:07.9] Yes, bajillions. I don't know why bajillions is my word. Human history. Millions of years, Right. The whole time, it's human history. If you're talking about things like, how can we prove if someone is a descendant of someone, guess what the best way is to do. You know, a matrilineal line. Fine. Right.

[32:25.1] So we let men have a little turn and, like, try it out. And guess what? They screwed it. Like, they. They it up for everybody. So now. Great. Hope you had a nice run. That was great. It was terrible. Like, it didn't really work very well. So, like, your time is over.

[32:40.7] Let's go back to, like, what we know works. And I think that's what we need to see happen at this point. Like, no more men in power. I mean, I will say, though, we can't. We can't. I don't want to do that. Only because I totally feel you. You know how much I. I'm so over the whole thing.

[32:57.8] But I will say there are plenty of women that are in power or want to be in power that will 100 uphold. We've got Marine Le Pen in France. We have the Japanese prime minister who is wild. Like, so we have these women that are also.

[33:14.9] And then, of course, we have our own homegrown wild ladies as well. I just mentioned one of them a second ago. So I would say what I would like to see is, instead of just being like, I want women in charge. Which, that's great. I want feminists in charge. I want people.

[33:31.8] And when I say feminism, that means equality, that means equity, that means fairness, that means respect for everyone. Because, like, and honestly, flesh. I was having this conversation with someone yesterday. She's got two, kiddos, and, one identifies as non binary.

[33:50.6] And, they're 17. And, you know, I was talking about this. Like, I see signs sometimes where I still, you know, see the T shirts and the mugs that say, like, the future is female. And I'm like, I don't even know if that's gonna be true. I don't know if gender is going to be a thing in another generation because it's so fluid now.

[34:08.0] Like, I just don't even know which I'm, like, here for. Great, Wonderful. Let's break it all down. Let's stop it. Let's just move forward. No, I mean, I Agree. Like, I think. I think I, know you and I are aligned. We both. Oh, yeah.

[34:23.4] Like, nothing more than to see a breakdown of what's happening right now. Let's rise from the ashes. But, you know, and. And I do think they're, like, I hear what you're saying, and I think it is an interesting, it would be an interesting thought project, I guess, not experiment a thought project to really kind of go down into, like, some of these examples you shared around.

[34:45.9] Like, you know, the. The women who maybe are not forwarding our cause in a way that we would like to see and just see how much again, that ties back into a patriot, like, 100 system. Right? 100. I think. I think it, you know, I don't know if it's like a direct 100, like, correlation, but I think it has so much.

[35:04.6] There's so much that's been tainted. Right. Yeah. So I do agree, like, if we were to be like men, like, if we were to say, no man can be in power, like, ever again, which is, I know, wild, but, like, hey, let's just. Just. Let's just manifest what we desire.

[35:20.0] I'm mostly kidding. If we were to, like, go wild and I know some great guys, I know some great men in my life, but, you know, do they need to be in power? Not all men. But not all men. Hashtag. But if we were to be like, all right, men can't be in power anymore. Like, the reality is women are not perfect.

[35:36.4] They're like, we're not, you know, like. Like there is so much variety and like, there are women who are. Are gonna have view and to your point, like, and then we look at the gender spectrum. It's not just the binary. So there's so much richness in the world, but we also have lost so much because of the patriarchy.

[35:54.7] Like, yes, you mentioned non binary. You know, if we bring in trans folks in the conversation, like, yes, look at cultures. Like, you know, I'm thinking about, like, places like India and South America and, you know, even, you know, the Americas in general. Like, all over the world, I have been colonized by, you know, England and by white men, essentially.

[36:13.3] You look and you can see such clear, rich, vivid examples of how gender was not considered. It was considered so differently. And there, were and still are examples of people who lived in peace in whatever gender identity that they felt called to.

[36:30.1] And in a lot of cultures, they were revered and seen as special and honored. And then what happened? Colonialism came in. You know, they took over they colonized. And then they were like, get rid of these wackos. And you know, now we have this horrible society that we live in. Trans people are like literally dying because they're literally to live in the body, in, in their bodies in a way that feels, you know, that that is right for them.

[36:52.6] And you know, we're still having this stupid argument about whether or not that's like, you know, should be accepted or not. 100%. So anyway, I, you know, again, I, I feel like I need to go back to college. Just maybe not Haverford, but, or maybe 20 years ago.

[37:07.7] I'd love to go back and just do like a deep dive into gender studies and like the history of colonialism and like, just getting into a lot of that because I think that we can see like. And again, to tie it all back to Epstein, like, we see how deep it goes and how far back it goes and even, And we've talked a little bit about this, but like, even thinking about things, like if we sort of zoom out and look at something like what is or what was, you know, sort of norms for femininity, right?

[37:36.5] And we look and we say, oh. And not to get like too gross here, but like, oh, we should all be shaving our pubes, like, literally. Why, like disgusting. I mean, there's the, I mean that's just the. I mean the whole. I mean, people have written beautifully about how this whole thing is about sexualizing young girls and wanting women to only be in those shapes and sizes.

[38:05.0] And that is just. And why, why everything is so fucking broken is because that is the lens. That. And unfortunately, because the thing that is so destructive is that it is because these people are in such positions of power.

[38:22.1] They have so much influence. We talk about power a lot, right? They have so much influence that it has infiltrated all of us, every single one of us. All of us women. We have been, I can tell, socialized, oh, a hundred percent as it. As a 50 year old woman, right?

[38:38.9] Like, I can't tell you how much I struggle with like, I look at my like, neck wrinkles and I'm like, oh my God, I'm hideous. You know, I work with your old man. You'd be like, I'm looking so just like more distinguished. Just get a beard. I'd be like, let me just get a beard. Yes, like seriously, like literally and be like, yes, I'm so handsome now because I have a beard.

[38:58.6] My, my silver, like salt and pepper situation. And. But like, I have so much anxiety about it. I spend so much time like, worrying about it. And I, And I, Now it's crazy because we're. We. We're staring at each other like we are staring at ourselves in the zoom. Right?

[39:16.4] Like I did not 10 years ago look at myself in this much. I know this much. And by the way, highly filtered because I have that zoom filter all the way up. So everything is smooth. Why?

[39:32.6] Oh, I do 100. I have a little bit. Yeah, no, I mean, I. Listen, I get it. Like, I get it. It's real and it's so stupid. It is. It is stupid because. And I do this work and I know it, right? Like, and I'm conscious of it. And I. And I think about people who like, are in their 30s and they're getting Botox prejuvenation.

[39:51.5] Oh, yeah. And what the hell that's going to do to them. I mean, I used to rail about even just wearing heels. I'm like, do you. Are you really comfortable in heels? I, don't buy it. I just don't. Well, I mean, not to go down that pathway, but I will say people who wear heels, they have.

[40:07.3] There is a lot of research shows that like, your Achilles tendon does get, that's tighter. So it actually does result for some people. Yeah, actually like, more painful to wear flats than heels. So that's fair. But again, like, that's not the hill I'm gonna die on. But yeah, as someone who wor a lot of heels because I'm a shorty, I, really wish I hadn't messed up my feet. So.

[40:27.6] It's fine. I, I love a good clog now, so, you know, just clogging it out here. But yeah, you know, like, I, I think I, I was also again, like, because going back to my initial question too, which is how much have you gone? Like, how far down have you gone down? Like, so, you know, just.

[40:43.8] Even I've seen a little bit, but again, I haven't. I feel like I've been trying to protect my, my piece a little bit. I just know that it, it's just. It's so the, the potential to have it become so. Just destructively overwhelming is. Is there. But, a little bit of what I've seen too has been, a bit around how there's all these ties as well to like, Juicy Couture and like, you know, young, girls fashion clothing and things like that in, you know, the 90s and 2000s. Victoria's Secret.

[41:13.9] Victoria's Secret and Again, you know, it's not as. It's not a side note because it's connected to exactly what we're talking about. Like, but, I don't know if you know this or not, but, like, Victoria's Secret does not have sizes for women. Or people, I should say, with larger busts.

[41:29.4] So, you know, for me, I have a larger chest size. And I've never been able to buy bras at Victoria's Secret because they simply do not. Their sizing is so limited. Now I'm looking back at it and I'm like, well, I wonder why. Like. Or I don't wonder anymore. It's like, it's because, well.

[41:45.2] And I will tell you, same for me. I couldn't either because I have a large back and small boobs. And so they don't count because it's like, if. You know, because we never looked like prepubescent girls except for when we were prepubescent girls, you know?

[42:02.3] And so it's just like, oh, it's just so horrifying. And I just. Again, I'm like, I. I just can't. I can't. I can't. With the whole argument of, like, well, everything's gonna clap. Cops, bring it on. Like, I just cannot. Like, when's it gonna happen?

[42:17.5] Like, I mean, you know me, I've been ranting and railing about, like, aliens coming and taking over forever. I'm like, if. You know, just like, I. I think I'm just ready for mass destruction. Yeah. I'd like it to. To not be that. Like, I, you know, I do struggle with it. I think about how great my life is personally, and I'm just like, Like, I benefit a lot from.

[42:39.4] From the state of the world, and yet, like, we need something that is going to help other people because we haven't even talked about all the shit that's happening in the rest of the world and how America has been directly responsible for what is happening in so many parts of the global South.

[42:56.9] And it's just like. And, you know, It's just. It's so toxic and it is so destructive. And the. The only good thing about this time is that it is just more and more people are becoming aware bit. Including ourselves. And we're, like, steeped in this stuff. And we're.

[43:13.2] We're learning. We are continuing to learn and grow. And, you know, I just appreciate anyone who's still listening to us babble because we haven't even gotten into. Is anyone even out there?

[43:29.0] Is anyone out there? We haven't even gotten into the Peter Atia, James Bander Vanderbeek connection with all of this stuff too. I think we have to save it. I think we got to put it. We do. We can't. I mean, we have to. Yeah, we have to, to. To pace ourselves.

[43:46.4] I, I just, I do want, as I said that I do want to throw one last really quick do it. Which is, have you seen that France just said that they are going to completely divest from any American technology. So like, no Zoom, no Gmail, no like no Microsoft, no Office, like nothing.

[44:01.5] And I'm like, please, the rest of the world. I mean they all have their problems too, so no one's perfect. We're literally on Zoom right now. I know, but I'm just saying, like, I, I really feel like, The, the thing is, the two things I wanted to kind of like maybe start to wrap up my own thoughts with is, first is we are in the time of change and a time of reckoning and that time is disrupted and it's.

[44:25.5] I mean it's not going to resolve tomorrow. It may not resolve next year, in five years, 10 years, 20 years. And, and I do think that's part of why it feels so oppressive and depressing because it's like, like, you know, a lot of us are like, hey, we're heading into like, whatever period of our lives and like, we didn't think we'd have to be here right now, but we are.

[44:43.6] And you know, and there have been a lot of people who've been fighting fights at all different points in time in history. And so we're just. This is our fight that we're fighting. The other thing I want to mention is that, to your point around, like, your life's pretty good. Like my life is really good too. Right. And I think that again, just to go back to that whole idea, like multiple things can be true at the same time.

[45:03.4] Yeah. Like, we can, we can talk about things like reparations and not say that that means that like, you know, one group or one person or whatever is going to have to like destroy everything in order to like help someone else. And that's part of what makes it so complicated and why people. And it's hard and why people don't want to engage in this kind of discourse and discussion.

[45:22.3] But like, you know, if we look at as a quick example, like the Land Back movement, like, I forget what award ceremony it was. They is the Grammys. Like Billie Eilish just came out recently and was like, you know, no one's illegal on stolen land. And then a whole bunch of like, you know, more. She's my favorite, by the way.

[45:38.5] MAGA people were like, oh, then give your house back because you're on blah, blah, blah land. And that particular tribe was like, we're not asking for her to give us her house. We're just. We are asking for the acknowledgement and, like, for a. Just like, you know, a discussion around, like, what does it mean?

[45:54.8] And, like, how can we coexist? Because guess what? Like, we're not going to kick out all the people who ever immigrated here past a certain date, but we have to have a discussion around the fact. And, like, this is part of why I think this moment is so important for us is because America, the United States of America, I should say.

[46:11.1] Just to clarify, the United States of America has never had a full reckoning with our history. Totally. And what in colonialism totally have done here. And we just sort of glossed over it. And so we are really entering into a period of real reckoning. And so I think it's.

[46:27.0] It's long overdue. I agree with you 100%. Preach. It is time. Like, let's go. And hopefully you and I and all of our lovely listeners will be a part of that reckoning in a good way. Yes.

[46:43.7] Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Bye, everybody. Bye.