AI Ethics, SHRM, and Building New Playbooks with Kristy McCann

What happens when one of HR’s most seasoned leaders gets fed up with broken systems and decides to build new ones? Let’s find out! In this episode, we sit down with Kristy McCann, multi-time founder, CEO, and HR powerhouse, for a wide-ranging, energizing conversation about the real state of the future of work.

We dig into why change management is ultimately just project management (and why most leaders are failing at it), the growing ethics and efficacy crisis around AI adoption in the workplace, what’s gone wrong with SHRM as a certifying body, and why consumer power might be the most underutilized lever we have right now. Kristy also shares how she reads pattern recognition as a superpower, and what her next chapter looks like as she works to close the skilling gap she’s spent her career fighting.

It’s one of those conversations where we left feeling genuinely fired up and we think you will too!

Also in this episode: we introduce Ask the Library, our new AI-powered tool built on the Inclusion Geeks resource library.  ☺️

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction & Episode Preview

01:14 – Introducing Ask the Librarian, Our New AI-Powered Resource Tool

11:47 – Welcome, Kristy McCann Flynn

12:03 – Kristy’s Career Journey, From Scranton to HR Founder

18:02 – Rethinking Change Management for a World in Constant Flux

22:00 – AI in the Workplace, Enhancement or Replacement?

28:33 – AI Ethics, Data Privacy & the No-Guardrails Problem

31:11 – Leadership Gaps, Accountability & Why Ideas Aren’t Enough

33:21 – Kristy’s Stealth Next Chapter, Education, Skilling & AI Efficacy

35:13 – The SHRM Problem, When Certifying Bodies Lose Their Way

44:49 – Rebuilding Critical Thinking & Trust in Institutions

50:18 – Consumer Power, Boycotts & Collective Action

52:59 – Unionization, General Strikes & Protecting Workers

57:42 – Think Globally, Act Locally

61:14 – AI Displacement, What History Tells Us

64:31 – Closing Thoughts & Where to Find Kristy

00:07 Hello and welcome to the she Geeks out podcast where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work making the world a better and brighter place. I'm your co host, Rachel. And I'm the other co host, Felicia. Yay. So our guest today is Christy McCann Flynn.

00:23 She's a founder, a CEO, COO, CPO, CHRO. She's all the C things. I mean, honestly, she's got like all the C suite titles. She has a more than 20 track record of, scaling, raising venture capital, building top performing global teams, expanding client bases, mergers acquisitions, global systems integration, and people development.

00:42 But in all honesty, she is a true HR powerhouse. We talk about so much stuff, including AI, change management, the future of work, and a lot more. It's a great conversation. I can't wait for you all to get into it with us. Oh, my God. We, we left that conversation being like, we're so inspired by her.

00:58 So it was really, really fun. But we got things to get into before we get into that interview. So as always, fast forward if you need to, but if you would like to be here for some of this, some of our shenanigans, please stay tuned. So I will kick this off.

01:14 So one thing that will should be live, hopefully by the time this lovely episode airs, is we have a new thing called Ask the Librarian. And. But it's something that has actually been long in the making, but still not something that we've actually figured out how to make available to the wider public.

01:35 So I will just lead in with that and maybe, Felicia, I will just kick it off to you to talk about what it, what it started out as, and then we can. What is this Build to the crescendo of what it will be. What. What the world will see. Yeah, well, so I think longtime listeners and anyone who's worked with us or engage with us in any kind of way, you probably know that we're super big, like research and data nerds. And geeks.

01:58 We're geeks. Yeah. Nerds. Look at me. Who am I even talking about? Geeks. As it were. And, I mean, I won't pretend to know where it comes from for you. For me, I just feel like it was just so embedded in my education and college and all that stuff and just, always was taught to cite your sources and all that good stuff.

02:21 And it's very much an ethos that we've carried over into the work that we do here at Inclusion Geeks since day one. And I Think it's important to note that because, when we talk about, you know, historically, the DEI work that we've been doing, now some of the stuff that we're doing, that's more like future work, a question we get a lot, which I think is a really valid question is like, where does this come from?

02:41 Like, why do you know this? Why are you saying this? Why are you telling us to do these things? And I think it's really easy for, some of the work in these spaces to sort of be squishier, right? To just say, well, oh, like, just take it for what it's worth. Or trust me, you know, it's my feelings, it's how I feel.

02:59 I, or I've lived the experience, which, you know, is valid in its own way. Totally. But we have historically worked with a lot of folks from the tech industry, a lot of engineers, a lot of people who are more quantitative minded. And I think that, you know, from the very beginnings, one of the things that we took really seriously and were really, focused on was citing our sources first of all and really digging into the research and the data.

03:23 And for me, that's actually how I came into this work as a, as a practitioner back in the day was I was doing research, I was trying to learn about the experiences of women in the tech industry specifically. And I was, there wasn't anything to go to back in the mid 2010s when I started getting involved in this stuff.

03:41 And so I. Back in the old days, I know back in the old days, it feels like that for real. I mean, it really is the reality at this point. But, you know, I was like, I was pouring into these like research papers and articles, you know, like the classic studies that were out there. And I was, this is literally how we started doing training.

03:59 I thought to myself, hey, I'm learning some interesting stuff about resume review and what names people are using and how people can be biased against different names. And maybe the recruiting team should know about this. And this is literally how the training started. I was starting off myself by giving these little mini trainings to folks at my last company.

04:18 And then it obviously grew a lot from there. But all that to be said is so, you know, we don't just have this research and data and then kind of have it all haphazardly. One of the other things I've been really, really focused on over the last couple of years has been collecting and sort of organizing all of this information in some way.

04:35 And so anytime A client works with us. And if you're listening in your client, you know this is true. You get a document of some sort that basically gives you a list of most, if not all of the resources that we have used when we're creating your content. Because I know that as a facilitator, people, some people will be, like, bought in just because they like me or they're, you know, they understand, or they're here for it.

04:59 And other folks will be more skeptical, which is totally, totally fair. And so what I always say is, like, for my folks who need it, like, here's the list of all the things that we use to create this content. And if you want to dig into it further, if you have questions, if you're not sure if I interpreted the data correctly, like, you can go as deep as you want to go.

05:16 And we give the receipts. We got the receipts. Yeah. But internally, we have obviously, like, a humongous. Like, it's basically a giant spreadsheet. And we use Airtable. It's a giant spreadsheet. It's a database. It's a database. It's a database. Make it sound, you know, as fancy as it.

05:32 As it should be. But that's what it is. I will say, like it is, I think, and I'm not tooting our own horns here, I think it's quite impressive because it's almost 2000 unique records and growing, every single day. And we're not only just putting it out there, we're also curating it, because we're categorizing it, we're organizing it, we're tagging it, we're making it searchable, for our own purposes.

05:54 We have so many different topics that are represented. Everything from, you know, accessibility to religion, to race to, project future of work. Future of work, change management, crisis management, AI. All the things are in there, and all the managements are in there.

06:11 All the things are in there. And, it's also something that we're regularly reviewing to make sure if there's a broken link, if the source has been updated, if it's not relevant anymore, that it's all as fresh and relevant as possible. So all that to be said is one of my things that I've always, as you know, Rachel, have always been saying is this is such a great resource, what can we do with it?

06:33 Because it's great for us internally, but could it be something that we could provide some sort of access to externally? So I will now pass it over to you because I've been saying this for years and years, but really it's kind of like all came together recently in this ask the librarian idea. Yeah.

06:52 So look, I love AI. I'm not going to lie. I know it's not even cool to say it, but it's true. It's like, it's like this hidden. It's like you feel like a little shameful thing. Yeah, it's like it's like a dirty little secret. Right. It's like I'm into AI, I.

07:09 But I also understand all of the implications around it. So I'm not going into it blindly, but I have been really invested in understanding how it works, understanding the implications. We do also have an ethical and responsible guide to AI that will hopefully also be out by the time that we release this.

07:29 But one of the things that I've sort of really dove into is Claude code. My background, a lot of people don't know this, perhaps who are listening to this, but my background is actually in tech. So I was building websites in the first.com boom. And I have to say having Claude code to be like a pair programmer with essentially.

07:50 So having someone to co code with has been absolutely revelatory and I have been having a great time. And so one of the things that we decided to build was essentially a website that would allow people to have access to the resources, a more interactive way.

08:10 So now when you go to the site you can literally ask the librarian. So you ask librarian a question. It could be how do I support my ergs? Or how can I help with my company, with pay equity or psychological safety or ethical AI. Right.

08:26 So you can ask these questions. It'll give a nice summary and it will also then pull in all of the resources that are related to that topic and then it will link out to those topics as well. So super excited for that. You basically get like three free questions and then then you basically can upgrade.

08:45 But we're really excited about it. We hope that you will be too and who knows what else will come out in the future. There's, there's a lot of things percolating over, over at Inclusion Geeks. But we're excited for this one. Never a dull moment. But yes, I'm, I'm, we're both really excited about it.

09:02 I think it's in again even you know, once you go bey three questions. It's a very reasonable access charge. I think if I will say so myself. And you know, and I, I kind of like it because it sort of to me feels a little bit like, I don't know, like hearkens back to the old days of like early Internet, like Ask Jeeves, you know.

09:21 But what I really like, I think the most about it is as anyone who's used AI knows it's really hard sometimes because you can't always trust the outputs, you know. And AI is, is known to hallucinate. And I have certainly had a firsthan experiences where I've gotten the perfect resource back for something that I asked for.

09:42 And I had like my little spidey sentence go up and I'm like, is this real? And spoiler alert, it was not real. But AI made this beautiful paper that looked so real and really wish it had been. But you know, this particular site is pulling from real resources and the links that you're going to get, are real links that we are, you know, with a human eye exactly.

10:04 Looking at, reviewing, adding. So this is not stuff that it's making up. It's totally all coming from our source data which is all real data. So yeah, it's such an important point because I feel like it's a real differentiator, you know. It is not. It is still. It goes to the heart of the way I think about AI is that it still does need that human element.

10:23 It's so important to it. I think a lot of people are talking about that and acknowledging that, that as of right now, this moment, the year of our Lord, 3-3-2026, that is something that we, sorry, we are not religious but I really do enjoy saying that. I feel like we just have to say it's just, it's non denominational at this point.

10:39 It is, it's of a time. But it is an important point to mention that it is really still important to have that human element to it. So that's why I love about this, what I love about it. It's like curated by humans but powered by Claude.

10:55 So so we're excited for you to try it out and we're always open to feedback as well. So if you try it out and you're like, this is terrible, let us know, give us feedback and in all honesty, like if you ask it a question and it doesn't give you an answer, let us know too. Because I, you know, we tested out and I asked the question and I was like, Rachel, it didn't know how to answer my question.

11:14 So we updated a little Bit more. And then we're like, great, now we understand how to fix that. Oh, that was because there was an error that was thrown, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was because it wasn't fully. That's okay. Yes, that was because it wasn't fully fully, but now it is fully fully. So. But definitely let us know if there's a wrong. If there's a wrong answer.

11:31 This was just a show. Also, let us know if there's an error, because I would want to know that as well. But yeah, so more to come on, all of the good stuff and you know, frankly, values based ways to use AI, I think, more on that.

11:47 But yeah, I think that's it. Let's, let's get to our incredible guest. Yes, welcome to the show, Christy. All right, our guest today is Christy McCann Flynn, founder extraordinaire, among a bunch of other things which we're going to talk about. We are so excited to have you here, Christy. I'm thrilled to be here.

12:03 Thank you for having me. Thank you. So I don't even know where to begin because your experience in HR and as a founder is impressive to say the. So maybe we can start by having you talk us through your journey to where you are today. My journey is to where I am today. That's a good one.

12:20 Fully loaded question. So to kind of give broad strokes, I spent roughly 20 years in HR in a lot of mid markets, startups, enterprises. And then I even, did consulting for RGP for a few years where I was in lots of different startups, growing businesses, but then also very established businesses.

12:46 And my core focus in HR has always been around change management, organizational development, a lot of And A, a lot of re, something like reorganization, realignment, pivoting, restructuring.

13:05 A company was always going through a significant change. And the change, whether they wanted to like a Pearson, go from a book business to being an E learning business, you know, at constant contact, to be a full, you know, type of marketing suite, for SMBs.

13:22 That was always where I brought a lot of power and a lot of it, you know, had to do with, you know, I had been in hr, like even when I was in college, I kind of landed backwards into it. I'm a poor kid from Scranton and you know, so I always work full time along with going to school.

13:41 And so I ended up, actually in the HR department at spc, which essentially became Comcast and then Time Warner. And so that's how I started my career. But when I was there, that's when all that was happening through the many different mergers and acquisitions.

13:56 And so I kept on going that avenue. And so it's always about driving revenue, creating people roadmaps for major change initiatives and really putting the process and structures in place to get from one side to another. Then I made the I didn't expect to make the pivot.

14:16 I never thought I was going to be an entrepreneur or create my own HR tech, platforms, I'll say, because I created too. I had reached that point of frustration and burnout that a lot of HR individuals like how many problems do I have to deal with in a day? Right?

14:36 And you're plagued by this, but then you're also plagued by really, really bad platforms and systems that are out there that were never built or made by HR or by employees, right? Oh, like a lot of the platforms that are out there, they just took processes from the 1950s, you know, that were paper processes and then put them on a platform.

14:58 And not to say not to think once, is this the right process? Is this the right workflow? Right. So there is that. I've always been very data centric and not being able to understand and make the connections as to the root of the problems in organizations and that was perplexing.

15:16 So I'm like whatever, like I've made a lot of money. I could keep this, you know, all this money that I've made in my career and you know, go on the beach and you know, drink some Mai tais and have some bon bons or I could invest this money into a company to essentially the whole goal and mission is to help people get the skills that they need to do their job.

15:39 So we went out, bootstrapped. I put in half a million dollars to go coach back in 2018. We came out with a Coach marketplace and LXP that sold into mid market and enterprise businesses. We were doing substantially well. We created attraction not only for lots of different diversity of customers in the mid markets and enterprises, but also investors.

16:02 So I wanted to build out the full vision of what I really wanted and I couldn't do that. Bootstrap. And so I started to take, take VC. Dollars have raised over $15 million over the course of a few years to build out what essentially became Skill Cycle. And the whole premise behind Skill Cycle was putting the right things together. Right.

16:21 We have performance management that happens, we have learning. They happen in silos, they happen in vacuums and they need to Be better together so that you're getting feedback that you need to improve something. Why are we waiting to a stupid revenue? Let's get that feedback now so that we can get you to coaches and mentors and contents and make it live.

16:40 And so we created Aida, our AI, as our augmented individual development advisor to essentially be that connection that's bringing formal or informal, performance and feedback to bring it into a reality of active learning real time.

16:58 So it's a constant cycle, hence the name skill cycle. So I did that and then there was an exit to PE that I wasn't too happy about. But you know, it's a great company with a great team and now I'm helping a bunch of other different startups, in the work, space, future of work, HR tech space that obviously aren't conflictive with skill cycle, for them to realize their dreams.

17:25 Because my mission still has not changed. I want to ensure that nobody is left behind. I want to ensure that everybody has the skills to do their job. That is my mission of life. So that's me in a nutshell. Wow, Christy, that's incredible. I love your story.

17:42 It's really, it's powerful and it's important and it gets my head spinning with a lot of questions that. And I'm sure we can go in a million different directions. But one thing I wanted to key on, first of all, you seem like someone that really enjoys change like I do.

18:02 We're a unique breed. But I wanted to talk a little bit about change management, if that's okay, because it's something that you sort of mentioned early on. It's something that was in your career. And Phylicia and I have been thinking a lot about change management, change readiness, adapting.

18:18 And I think it's very much in what you're dealing with now in your work. I'm just curious, how, how do you think about change management from how it sort of has been traditionally viewed to maybe, thinking about it in a new way in given that we are dealing with so much change so quickly. Yeah.

18:41 Change management, if you look on the surface, it really looks like a very nebulous term. What does it mean? How do you do it? How do you do it? Well, et cetera. And everything is a change from something from a manager shift to a new company product to whatever, that there's change every single day.

19:01 And that's just the change that's going on inside an organization. Never mind all the change that's going on outside of an organization. Right. And we have been, gosh, I mean we're going on probably, you know, five, 10 years of extreme change that's external, that is impacting organizations, internal as far as how they do business, you know, how they make money to how, you know, they work with employees as to, you know, how people really feel like when they should go to work and you know, AI burnout, politics, everything like market shifts, like it.

19:42 It's a lot to all my HR comrades out there. God bless you. I thought Covid was bad. I think the storm is even wor. So I think when you look at change though, we have to change management to me is project management.

19:59 And so I was certified in pro Sci back in the day, not to date myself. And you know, you know, I guess become a master student of everything that Patrick Ganoche has put out there. And when you really look at the core tenants of change, it's really about executive sponsorship, communication and project management and the plans that go around it.

20:22 And it's a way of thinking in a very processed way as to. Even if you don't know the answers and you don't understand what tomorrow is going to be, it's about really looking at the core tenets, what is the mission, vision and values and the go forward of the company.

20:41 You know, that that needs to be coming from executive leadership, executive sponsorship. It, let's get that laminated. Doesn't have to be right, doesn't have to be wrong, doesn't have to be indifferent. Just put something down on a piece of paper and be honest about it. Then comes in the communication, okay, we're this right now in the company and we want to be this tomorrow.

21:03 What does that mean? What is it for me that mean for all the employees, all the managers, all the skills that we have, all the revenue that we're driving, all the customers, let's really laminate that down and then essentially putting it in a project plan. Right.

21:19 And so it becomes very process oriented in a way. And you know you're going to be dealing with lots of things that you don't know, like not clear expectations. That's okay. It's about getting that lamination down and really building out like that scaffolding and then educating people on what that should be.

21:39 Because people don't know. They won't do anything and they won't change. Change. Right. And you have to be clear, you have to be consistent, you have to be able to connect it to why it matters to them, why it matters to the organization. And you have to be able to provide the skilling and organizational development that's so clearly needed because like that's what happens a lot of times.

21:59 Like, let's just use an example, AI. Everybody loves it and everybody hates it, right? We love it because I see it as a job enhancement and we hate it because it's also being viewed as a job replacement. And so we see this connection, but we're fearful.

22:18 And so do we not use it or we only use it in secret, you know what I mean, to boost ourselves up, or do we resist it in our day to day jobs? And that's huge because companies haven't been clear. Some have and they've been paying the price for that, that.

22:36 But they're really not clear as to the why behind it and what it means for people and what people can get out of it. So if I were, you know, leading an organization right now, I would be looking at it. Embrace AI. This is a avenue for skill development within an organization that is only going to enhance you, you know, for what we need to do today and then how we're going to build a bridge for tomorrow.

22:58 And these are the different ways that we need to do it. And this is how it's going to connect with your core job and this is how it's going to connect with your core compensation and XYZ background. But we don't do that. We just make a lot of bold statements and then leave people questioning with thousands of questions as to what this means.

23:16 And that's the breakdown. And that is a huge breakdown. Adding leadership capacity. It's okay not to know the answer, but at least try to have like something laminated out and put yourselves in the, you know, understanding of the employees.

23:31 Like be an employee for a second. What would you want to know and why? And I think that trust and transparency goes a long way because like if you look at the pro side model, it's ad car, you need to drive awareness, what, why, when, how, et cetera, that awareness, you know, starts to build desire as to what the change is.

23:53 And how you want to be part of it or maybe not part of it, but you. We start to then build a knowledge base as to the why behind it and what you can do to either embrace it or not. And then you're given the ability, skilling, right, you know, knowledge, transparency, know how and then how to reinforce it.

24:14 And we don't do that. We give awareness and Then we expect to reinforce it and we cut everything down in the middle, and that's where employees get caught. And so I think that. But, I think it was back in, like, mid. It was right around the big boom, like with the housing.

24:32 I think 2008, 2009. Number one reason why CEOs were getting fired was lack of change management capability. And I guarantee that that is going to be, happening again today. Because if you cannot lead through change, doesn't matter what your product is or what your idea is, you are going to be nothing if you can't get the people behind you. You.

24:54 I mean, I could not agree more with what you just said and everything you said. For those who are listening, I'm like, aggressively nodding along, and I know Rachel is too. You know, it's funny because Rachel and I were just talking earlier today about exactly what you were touching on Christy, around, like, the rate of change, you know, and, you know, the last.

25:14 Whatever you want to slice and dice at 5, 10 years. It's just been so much, and it obviously is a really core competency that not every organization or every leader is equipped, equipped to handle right now. And to your point about, you know, using AI as an example, I was just thinking about, a panel I was on a couple months ago that was HR leaders and talking about AI and, you know, what's going on in the world and everything.

25:38 And it was so interesting hearing from folks where they were talking about how they want to use. They're using AI. They're using AI to do performance reviews and, you know, review resumes and all the different things and, and, you know, help out with their job functions.

25:55 But then there's also sometimes this penalty for job seekers who are using AI to try to get into the organizations. And then the question was really, you know, what are we doing here? Setting up this kind of, like, false equivalency where we're, you know, saying, don't do it over here. But once you're in the organization, you can use it and you should use it.

26:12 If you don't use AI, then you're left behind. So I just think there's. There's so much happening right now, and not everyone is really fully, you know, thinking about it strategically to your point. But it's, it's such a core competency that is needed right now. Well, it's such a bunch of munch, right?

26:29 Like, so, like, what's Life pick on ATS's because there's a bunch of them getting sued right now, right like we, I, I again I was a former HR buyer. Like, you know, I mean I was dealing with ATS's that were, you know, wasn't being called AI, but it was definitely machine learning. Like, you know, I mean, over the last, Machine Learning is what?

26:47 AI, that's basically like AI 1.0. Yeah, exactly. Like algorithms. Yeah. Like, you know, it was doing all that stuff. It's been going on for a while and it's just data, but the data is bred from us. And so if it, if AI, just to give an example, if a, if you're in an organization which is really bad, where they're, you know, a bunch of, you know, racist jerks and you know, discriminating all that, that, that, that's data, right?

27:16 That is getting fed into the AI. And guess what? That is what is going to happen. I mean, there was this other tool that I brought in, I won't name it, it's just, it was manipulated. Right. It's a very good tool for like doing like, you know, assessments with hiring.

27:33 Problem was is that like a lot of managers were manipulating it where they only wanted to hire people who were falling in this category. Right. So like the whole tool got broken and the next thing you know they're only hiring people into this category. And then they wondered why everybody in the organization was a 30 year old white dude and there was absolutely no diversity in the rest of the organization.

27:52 And then you go into the ATS and you see, you know, I mean that, that, that, that's what it learned. And so we, we are the, the, the humans are the ones that are powering it. What are we powering it with? And, and, and that's a major scale issue within itself. So you have that issue, then you have the issue of AI efficacy and ethics and responsibility.

28:14 That really doesn't exist right now. I mean we're in this political system where it's just like AI everything, no guardrails, that is very scary. Especially when you're dealing with sensitive systems and HR finance and procurement. That is very important data that you just don't want out in modern day technology every single day.

28:33 And so it does become a question of what are the efficacy and the ethics around it as to how it's being used and it needs to be consistent. You know, case in point, you're telling that you're going to disqualify a job applicant because they're using AI, but then you're using AI to assess them.

28:50 That, that's like an oxymoron. Like, you know, be consistent with your practices across the board. Again, going to the change management model. Take a stance, have the communications and the project management on it. And so there's that component and then there's the other component of, you know, what it really means it.

29:08 If people are fearful of losing their jobs, but they're using AI in secret, what is being put into that? Right. We hear stories of people uploading their performance reviews and their assessments and all that and their goals. Yeah, that's really good for them.

29:25 But now AI has that. And I don't think every company wants their goals out there for public knowledge, as to what the company goals are. That's kind of insider information. And so.

29:40 But they're using it because they're being forced to use it, but we're not being clear. And I just think like, there kind of needs to be a timeout. And I don't think that we can wait on government to have that, but that if you are a sensical, you know, leader right there, that, that sees the advantage points of AI, but also sees the vulnerability.

30:00 Take a stance and really show how this can benefit people. Because every employee is ultimately a customer at the end of the day. Day. And what can this do for an organization to continue to, you know, help people rather than hinder people. And I just don't think that that has been said.

30:18 You have aggressive stuff that's coming out Silicon Valley where it's just like, wipe out everybody, do this. I mean, even Musk, like, you know, said, I mean, he says something randomly stupid every single day. But I mean, even he has come out and made these statements and then somebody asked him a question and he can't answer it.

30:34 Like, you know, we need to be thoughtful, we need to act like leaders. It's not just a change management thing. We don't have the leadership capacity, you know what I mean? Because we have a major skill issue and everything is pointing to a skill issue. And what are you going to do to fill in the gaps with those skills?

30:51 And that needs to stop at the top too. Half of the leaders that are out there have no business running organizations whatsoever because they have not built those leadership capabilities. They may have a great idea and they may know how to sell things, but that doesn't mean that they're a leader. Oh, Christie, first of all, congratulations for any of my longtime listeners.

31:11 I'd like to, say thank you for being one of the very few, perhaps the only one to shit on Elon Musk. Oh, God, thank you. I'm usually the one doing it. We are longtime haters this long time. And Phylicia's way more politic than I am, so I'm usually just the one flipping a table, like, at any given moment.

31:32 Dude, he just liked the Jetsons. That's all he's doing. He likes the Jetsons, he likes Star wars, and he likes Black Mirror. And then he gets a bunch of money and creates a company. They're not even his ideas. No, he's a killer of ideas. Yeah, they're not even his ideas. Like, if I was like a writer or creator for the Jetsons or Star wars or Black Mirror, like, yo, you owe me some money right now.

31:52 Literally, I mean, And we could probably say that for, I would hazard a guess, 99% of the people who are the tech billionaires, we could probably say that they, they were not the originators of ideas. Yeah. Thank you so much for all of this.

32:08 I, I, My head is spinning. I, you said so much. That really resonated with me and I'm sure with Felicia as well. There was actually a report that just came out, which I'll share in the show notes, but, it was a uk, survey that was done and the title is Women Worry Men Adopt How Gendered Perception Shaped the Generative AI, Showing that, you know, women are More Afraid to Use it and therefore, you know, exactly.

32:32 Basically everything that you had just articulated about how these systems gain inform. Gain information and insight and then spit it out poorly. So, so thank you for mentioning that. And also for, really articulating a lot of, you know, certainly what we've been thinking about as far as, like, who is in charge, why are they in charge, and are they qualified to be in charge?

32:57 And it really makes me wonder. Cause I did look at your LinkedIn profile and it says you've got a stealth thing going on. And so it makes me think about. You're talking a lot about this and I'm wondering, obviously you can't share what you're doing, but like, I would love to know, sort of, sort of the, this, Are you, are you playing in this space to try to address some of these issues around AI and how it can be used more ethically.

33:21 Yeah, I mean, the way that I'm looking at what I do now next is kind of like a, A, trifecta one. I'm going to help companies, especially in education, because education is the p. Path to freedom. Right.

33:37 You can obliterate everything that is going on. Like, you know, me in the education ecosystem, people can still go educate themselves, and I could do it in the private, system, and don't need any government money to do that. So, you know, I'm helping a lot of these work tech edtech, hr, Tech future work.

33:54 Companies realize their dreams that are all around. Around education, skilling ability, agility, et cetera. So that, that makes me feel very good. And I'm helping these founders make, you know, make sure that they don't make the mistakes that I did. And. And, but at the same time, help a lot of people.

34:11 The, the other thing that I'm, you know, around, like the AI components is, is, you know, really what that efficacy and ethics and what that really means and who that really matters to. Right. So we got a lot of skill deficiencies up top, you know what I mean, at leaders, at leadership level, across the board, across this country, globally, what have you just pick a person.

34:34 And the thing is that nobody's perfect, but if you try every single day and if you have a growth mindset, then you're workable. It's those that don't try every day and create a lot of problems and have a fixed mindset that, that they make everybody day help.

34:51 So, I'm trying to amplify, you know, making sure that we're getting into that growth mindset and working with individuals because we all. I mean, I have tons of gaps, right? Let's fix them, and then I'll fix new gaps. It's. It's a process. Learning is every day, education is every day. So taking that and looking at what they need to do as far as skilling up, but also looking at like, you know, a lot of their lieutenants.

35:13 Now, I'm, you know, former hr, but I've also been a CEO, and we got a huge issue right now going on with Sherm. Right. And I cannot wait to dig into this further with you, by the way, but yes, please continue. So, look, I mean, I was certified, like, again back in the day, not date myself.

35:35 And charm was always good for like, you know, policies and procedures that, by the way, really don't seem to matter anymore, like, whatsoever. Like, like if another CEO throws out the WARN act and decides not to do it, like, are you kidding me? Like, you know, like, are they.

35:51 They're ignoring eeoc, like, oh, anyways. But anyways, they, you have this issue and, and the leadership issues, they always fall in hr, and HR needs places to go. To, to really be able to have a, you know, the literature, the content, the education, the playbooks, you know, I mean to lead the future of hr, that is not a bunch of mushy stuff which everybody thinks it is, that it's just like, you know, it.

36:17 That is basically very revenue, very operations driven. Really being that trusted advisor because you under, you know, you're the MBA of that operations. Right. And then what, how that correlates down to the people and the skills.

36:32 I mean I think that HR has a huge opportunity here instead of being the place where everybody dumps stuff on to be the leader that amplifies the organization, that connects it all together as far as people process and product. Because that is the trinity, that they need to speak and that they need to work in and what that means as far as driving revenue.

36:54 So I think just with the gap that you have with shrm, you have the gaps with AI, we're going to be needing to lead and breed a new bench of leaders out there that can get those skills to be able to handle all these things. So I do see a huge opportunity there that I've been toying with.

37:12 And then the last thing I'll say is, is that it's really looking at the consumer. Don't wait. What can you do now? What can you do now to get the skills that you need in a way that that's not breaking, you know, your, your wallet, that that is amplifying your potential.

37:32 And if you have a growth mindset like you know, not spending a, ridiculous amounts of money, you know, I mean in time, of getting the skills and I just think there needs to be a better way. So I have all those things in my head and I'm trying to laminate out, you know, which way to go and how to do it and how to really bring it together.

37:49 Because I do the whole thing that I just outlined is a change management process and we need to get ahead of it now. And how can we do that with a system or platform or product, that that amplifies the skilling and the education and the leadership that we need with the AI and the efficacies around it, it where we obviously have huge holes everywhere that need to be filled.

38:11 So that's kind of like where my head is. I'm trying to figure that out. I mean I have too many whiteboards full of stuff. But that, that is that good. To give you a gist, that that is great. I mean it sounds so exciting and meaty.

38:27 And I'm sure the whiteboards are just multiplying every day and you're space. I want to skip ahead a little bit because you did bring up Sherm, and I do want to kind of double click on that a little bit. For anyone who's listening who doesn't know what Sherm is, we've definitely talked about it a lot in our other podcast episodes across the last couple years.

38:45 But, Society for H. Was it HR Management? Yeah. I have other names right now. Resource management. We'll go for it. So, we connected because we were on a. We were on a call where we were talking all things Sherm, and you mentioned that you've actually declined Sherm investment for your previous company, Skill Cycle.

39:05 So we don't have to, like, get into the muck of it. Unless you want to get into the muck of it. But I am really curious to hear a little bit more from you on what your thoughts are regarding the role of a certifying body, which SHRM is. They're really one of, I think, like, maybe two, maybe three orgs out there that are providing HR certifications for folks.

39:24 And I know, in that space, and you had talked a lot about, you know, sort of, is it worth it in today's world to have a SHRM certification? Is it not? SHRM has become real problematic. And so I am just a little bit curious what your thoughts are on whether these, like, existing structures that we've been working within are good enough anymore or if, you know, kind of maybe this ties in with what you're working on.

39:48 If we need to create new ways of signaling expertise, especially in the HR space, there definitely needs to be new ways of signaling expertise. I mean, again, SHRM is good for policy and procedures, and it's always been like that. I mean, but like, now, you know, I mean, they.

40:07 They followed the political game. It was obvious in the first term. Right. Like Business Insider has covered this, and, you know, we. We gave them little places to go to and, you know, find the story. It was very obvious in the first term.

40:23 The, you know, what's. Who's there now? That. That Sherm was going that way. And I saw that immediately. Now. I could see things that other people can't see. You know, I am bipolar. I'm. I'm. And the. The superpower of being bipolar is I could see pattern recognition very quickly.

40:42 So I knew they were going that route. I didn't like it, but then again, I wasn't really you know, caring about certification, you know, and et cetera. But it was part of the rationale, like, behind it, because, like, you know, I really wanted to work with people that were, like, minded and that saw, like, what the future needed to be.

41:02 And it's not a bunch of old processes from the 1950s or compliance or, you know, I mean, budding up with, like, the new political regime. That's not cool. And then they came around and, like, you know. You mean, started, like, you know, messing with dei and it's like, seriously, like, you know, truly, like, do not need to get me started on their DEI conference, which I could go to. And.

41:23 And yes, not great. I was just like, first off, are you kidding me? And then you go to those conferences and they have a bunch of movie stars talking about hr, like, are you kidding me? Like, let's talk about the people in the trenches. And then you have an attorney who's always been in media, right?

41:41 Okay, so how does that qualify you to lead, Sherm? Like, you're an attorney and you've always been in media. And so it just all seemed backwards to me. And, you know, and even funnily enough, like, I had done, like, a couple of, you know, webinars or, you know, whatever through Sherm, and, like, I got scolded for, like, you know, using the word, like, you know, hell.

42:03 And so hope, hopefully that's okay with their podcast, but, like, it's encouraged. And, like. And so I'm getting scolded on an email from them that I said, I'm like, are you serious? Have you. What's in the paper? Like, you know, anything? And, And so to me, didn't culturally align with me, my company, you know, I mean, my values, my morals.

42:29 It was much more than that. That. That this is not who I want to hang out with. And it's not easy. I mean, I was just on, like, another podcast last week, and I didn't even know they were being sponsored by Sherman. Sherm definitely didn't know that they're sponsoring me being on it. Like, you know what I mean?

42:45 Mean? And I saw it, and, like, I had to hesitate as I was pushing out. And then I called the person podcast. Like, what is this? He goes, oh, don't worry about it. Like, it's just like a sticker. Like, whatever. And I'm like, no, it's not a sticker. Right? Like, it, It's becoming like another cultural identity, right?

43:01 As to who you. What matters, right? Where you get your education and Your learnings from matters. Because, like, we've seen, like, you know, I mean, all the fake news. Like, I mean, like social media 10 years ago killed all critical thinking and inference, right?

43:19 We went from, like, you know, being taught things in like, you know, lectures and seminars and books to being like, you know, whatever, like, you know, Joe Rogan has to say is apparently truth. That. That's not truth. That's just clickbait. That sells. Right? And so the cold, like, that's killed social media, has killed all, you know, critical thinking, inference.

43:37 And now we're in this AI world and it's just like garbage in, garbage out, right? It's just a data repository. And so that. Where you're getting your truth and your data from and the validity and what it stands for, that matters to me.

43:53 And I do my best and, you know, I try every single day to make sure that I'm aligning myself, you know, with people that encompass that and people. And there's days that I fail. I mean, like, you know, I, you know, I've gotten burned before by bad people that disguise themselves.

44:09 That's one thing. And, and there was something else. And you learn from it. But, I just think it's very important. Like, I've been in HR for a long time, and now I'm a CEO and I power myself through intellect and knowledge and learning from others and learning from experts and driving that education, you know, where there is a moral compass that benefits all and you're either in or you're out at this point.

44:33 There's no gray with me, if that makes sense. Sense, that is. You're hitting on some really important, points. And I wanted to dig into this problem that we are currently having that you identified, which is around, you know, you mentioned, like, trust.

44:49 We got to trust experts. Right? But like, shrm, they were the experts. Right. And, you know, we. We trusted in these institutions that are now sort of frankly crumbling around us for many reasons. So I'm curious, especially given that you are so focused on education, how do you see folks that are like, you know, like all of us who believe deeply in critical thinking?

45:17 You know, how do. How would you say that folks maybe that are grow. Have grown up in the era of social media? How do they build that skill, that critical thinking skills, and build back trust in institutions that make sense and aren't just sort of telling us things that aren't true?

45:36 Yeah, I mean, look at every institution rise and every institution falls down. It's what you do that matters. Right. So we'll pick on the church. Right. Church has had a series of controversies, you know, in the years, especially up in Boston and in my neighborhood too. Right.

45:56 This is a church, this is a holy, you know, where we go to the worship and bad things are happening and being covered up. Right, right. What they did, they did some things well and they did some other things that weren't done well. Right. And I think that they're still trying every day. Right.

46:15 Especially with the new guy that we have in town, go USA Chicago. And so, and he has a more of a centrist mind view. Right. And I, I think having like that centrist, like, you know, being able to look at the whole spectrum of, you know, what's going on and why and where you're going to have your ebbs and flows and where you're going to make the most impact and where it's going be critical.

46:36 And so like, just because you're part of Sherm doesn't make you a bad person. I will say that right now. And just because you're part of Sherm doesn't mean that you're not going to get something out of it. I mean it's on 99 of all job stuff out there, like it's, you're almost forced to be a member of Sherm or you know, at this point.

46:53 And by the way, to be really honest, like you could just chat gbt half the crap that you would get on SHER right now as far as policies and procedures. So I don't even understand why. And so, but it's a change mechanism. There, there needs to be a new thing because like right now they're not standing up for a huge organization of people that are certified and forget about their political views or forget about, you know, what they want.

47:17 They want education. And if you're not providing that education in a funneling and right way that is inclusive and equal for all, then that you've ripped apart like the core value, of that institution and the promise as to what you're supposed to be getting.

47:33 And, and that's very hard. And so like, if, you know, I, I think that like it, it could be fixable. They get the right person in there, that, that, that actually understands HR and that understands organizations and people and a lot of the issues that we have in the current state with AI and companies changing and revenue and people losing their job and you know, like all these different flights that we're going through, I think that's A starting point.

47:59 But again, actions speak louder than words, right? And it takes time. I, mean, there's other abuse, like hrci. I mean, like, again, not to date myself. HRCI and SHRM used to be like, you know, one and the same. There was a reason why they separated off a long time ago, and a lot of it's still there, at the core.

48:17 And so I just think, like, if it doesn't feel right, you gotta say something, and we're afraid to do that anymore more. Right. And it's okay to take on institutions if it's not helping the greater good.

48:32 If they're helping the greater good, great. But if they're only helping a select few, then that's normally not cool. Because the whole point of this country is the United States of America, the US and the US is us. Right?

48:48 Every organization that you're a part of should have an US focus, not the select view. Everything that you do should have an US focus and not just your individual view. And, and that's what's really looking at. At the crux of it. Like, we need to be able to drive that, because what is the point of community? Right?

49:06 Their society, that. That's another word for community. What community is there if people don't feel safe in what they're doing? Who? Yes, Christie, Just like, yes to everything. You know, it's. It's interesting because we were SHRM recertification for a long time, and then I don't remember when, but like a couple years ago, we, you know, same things that you've been mentioning.

49:30 We were like, we don't really feel like this aligns with our values as an organization anymore. To be part of this system and give money to this organization that we don't agree with anymore. So we, you know, we stepped away from that. But it's just been an interesting development to see how.

49:46 And obviously SHRM's just one institution out there. There's, you know, there's so much going on at all different levels. But, I think especially in 2026, it is really important in my mind to really stand up for what your values are.

50:02 And if you're not mission aligned, values aligned, you know, morally aligned with an organization or their leadership or what they're doing, I think it behooves everybody to actually, you know, sort of say where they are, because it's. It's not just about, oh, I'm going to work here or do this or do that.

50:18 It's actually like much more critical at this Point in today's world, I think, do you know what drives me nuts? And I'm going to hit on something. The consumer drives the outcome. If the leader is not going to do it and there is no change management plan and there is no communications, the consumer drives the outcome.

50:36 There is more of us. And when I say more of us, all of our people, like, you know what I mean? Like there's more of us than there is of them and we can drive the outcomes. And so like, you know, I went like, I'll pick on another one.

50:51 Like I'm anti Amazon. Why? Because I rather give to, you know, the small shop owners. Right. I'm tired of all the boxes and what that's doing. Like, you know, I mean, with climate. I'm tired of this guy gouging, you know, and making, you know, everything about him and not about the mass amounts of people that were just laid off in the most like, you know, horrible way.

51:13 Like, I mean, at least have some decency. If you're going to let go of somebody, losing a job is tough. Right? And so why am I going to give him money? For convenience. Yeah. I had to go back and use Amazon during COVID I couldn't get toilet paper anywhere. Right. I mean we all went through it, but like we're not there right now.

51:32 And so the consumer drives the power. And that's the thing that people seem to forget. Stop waiting for other people to do things. There's things that you could do now. I mean, there's great groups that I'm part of, you know, that aren't a certification qualifier, but they are safe spaces for the HR community.

51:51 Like Troop HR is huge. Tracy Avon, love them. What they're doing over there, you got heavy, you staff, creating safe space. You know, you have Lori Ruderman, who has been huge in the HR industry. You have like, you know, all these different places to go where you can get your knowledge and power.

52:08 It's a matter of finding it and finding your people and then drive that consumer. Because I'm going to tell you right now, now if people stop dropping like flies and stop, you know, renewing their certification, like I would love to see SHRM's numbers right now. If people stop renewing their certification, guess what?

52:25 SHRM has two choices. Change or you know, it's going to go down, right? In some way. Because once money starts to go down, people will change. Follow the money. That's all you have to do. And the consumer drives the $$.

52:42 And I don't understand why we don't understand that and why we don't do that. Christy, you are hitting on something that I talk about too much to the people in my life, and they're sick of it. And so thank you for talking about that. And I wasn't going to bring it up early in this conversation, but you really.

52:59 I'm like, okay, I'm gonna bring it up a little bit. You know, I think about this a lot. Like, why aren't we. I. I've been sort of on my little high horse for a while, even about, like, the idea of a general strike. And now I think people are talking about, you know, which is the boycotting that's, you know, that's happening right there was. This is.

53:16 We're recording this on February 2nd. Last Friday, there was sort of like a national strike. You know, boycotting of everything for a day. It has to be consistent, has to be sustained. But I have been thinking about, why are they not doing it? Why are we all not doing it? There's so much.

53:33 It feels like it's the air that we breathe, it is the water that we're swimming in. And, and it feels, maybe insurmountable to folks. But I'm with you. I think there's more and more. If more and more of us speak out about it and understand that maybe some people, you know, it's.

53:52 Some people maybe have, more challenges to sort of opt out of certain things than. Than others. But I just want to. I just want to echo what you're saying. I think there just needs to be more and more of us. And I do think that there are more and more of us. And this is a little plug for general strike.

54:08 You know, us, we need unionization again, blue collar. You know, my parents were union stewards. I mean, granted, unions weren't perfect either. Hence why they stopped existing. I mean, having, like, you know, Hoffa as, like, you know, I mean, our national emblem really wasn't probably best idea there.

54:28 Again, doesn't mean that the institution was wrong. It was the way that it was being led. Right. The whole premise of the institution was to protect people, you know, I mean, with their jobs, with their, you know, earning with their insurance, you know, with their protections. What they're doing mostly in blue collar right now.

54:46 Blue collar is a new white collar. Right? Because, like, you know, you can't get AI to come and, you know, fix a burst pipe at this point in time. Right. And so, like, a lot of Kids, you know, young adults, they're skipping college and going straight to, a lot of these blue collar jobs which are becoming the white collar jobs.

55:04 And the white collar jobs are becoming the new blue collar jobs. And there needs to be a unionization. And I completely agree. We need to do something. And it's not about being a Luddite, you know what I mean? It's really about, understanding what is going on from our own personal tax and our own personal economies and what this means for us and our families.

55:26 It's a playbook that is being run in this country and in a lot of these institutions, deny, lie and deflect. And then it constantly puts you in a spin so that you. We're all split, we're all splintered, we can't see.

55:43 But I mean, again, going to my superpower bipolar. It's pattern recognition. It's a playbook. We know what the playbook is. We have two choices. Stop it or create a new playbook. Create a new playbook for Sherm. Create a new playbook when it comes to, you know, unionization within this country.

56:01 Create a new playbook when it comes to education and with skilling. And we can use AI to amplify, amplify that in the right way, but we have to start somewhere. And that's what I've been really thinking about with, you know, what I'm going to do next is what is that new playbook for the future again that, that brings us up instead of tearing us down.

56:22 Yeah, it's, it's interesting because as you've been talking, I've been thinking back to a conversation I had literally yesterday about, some of these dynamics. And the person I was talking with basically expressed, something along the lines of, you know, I, want other.

56:39 I'm looking to people to lead the charge against all the things that we're talking about. But maybe I need to be someone leading the charge because I can't just wait for someone else to come in and lead. And I think that, you know, some of the structures like the unions, like, corporations even, or, you know, a sherm of the world, like we used to look to them, those structures for leadership.

57:02 And then they've either been dismantled or they've lost power or, you know, infiltrated by other aspects that we don't agree with. And so I do think that that's part of what we're dealing with right now is we have this, all these things that are happening and changing and we don't agree with a Lot of things, and we want change, but a lot of folks are looking to sort of sit back and be like, well, someone just tell me what to do.

57:26 Or like, I'll wait till the orator or the this person or that person says or does something. And we just. I don't think that's just not the world that we are in today. And, you know, I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a leader, but we need to have contingency over what we're doing.

57:42 Look at, I learned this a long time. I worked for a lot of global organizations. The, the, the little tagline and I'll use it now was think globally, act locally. Yes. Right. So like Mina wanting to, buy Amazon.

57:58 I look at all the small shops where I live. I would rather give them my money and help them and their families. Like, you know, I mean, knowing directly where it's going. And that boosts the local economy. You know, I mean, it boosts the diversity of where I'm buying my product.

58:14 It boosts a lot of these small business owners are women and people of color. It boosts that. Right. I mean, the other thing I'm doing is like, there's, I think I'm like, I'm in an area of Florida, where it's very LGBTQIA plus, which is great.

58:33 Like, that doesn't exist in a lot of places in Florida. So, like, I am in my little microcosm. And so I'm supporting a lot of the arts. Like Black History Month, is this month. And it's not just about putting up a placard to say, like, you know, let's learn about black people. It's like, no, this is the art, this is the culture, this is the story.

58:49 You know, this is the education. This is how we're sponsoring this, and this is how we're doing it through and, you know, getting the donations to continue to build that momentum. So every placard or monument that they take down, you know what I mean, we're putting up a new piece, that shows the history. So I think that it's not about taking on the world.

59:06 It's about looking at your microcosm and what can you do to be able to think globally but act locally. And that's where, like, I mean, I'm just a little person at the end of the day, one little person can start to have a domino effect.

59:24 And shrm chapters going back to that, they're all chapters say, you know what, we're going to keep our Sherm chapter. But we're not going to talk to you people anymore, right? Like, I mean, why the chapters. A lot of good chapters out there. Like the chapters in New York, there's one in Cincinnati. Like, they're, they're not hanging out with the, mothership anymore.

59:42 They're still Sherm, but they're doing it locally. And what it means, and what it means for AI, what it means for the future of work, what it means for Skilling, and so take what you have and morph it to your own is the way that I look at it. I couldn't agree with you more.

59:58 And I will say I always like to give a shout out to Felicia for all of the wonderful work that she's doing in her community. She's a city councilor and I'm trying to do stuff in mine as well. Yeah, it's. You're so right. It's, you know, it's been such an interesting year. Plus, but I think that the past year in particular has been very eye opening.

60:17 I think you're totally right about acting locally and not feeling like you're powerless. Because as soon as you feel like you're powerless, I always feel like then the bad guys win. Right? We have to continue on to fight, even if there's rest. But we have to fight too. So we've been thinking a lot about the future of work, Felicia and I, and we've been thinking about it from, and not just with AI, but sort of all of the changes that are generational change, political upheaval, economic upheaval, climate change.

60:43 Right? There's all of these things that are happening right now. And we're thinking about, you know, and there's a lot of people talk about AI, you know, right now they're, displacing some white collar workers. I'm sure as soon as the robots come, you know that they're going to come for the manual labor that, you know, that's.

60:59 That that's probably next on the horizon. And sort of, you know, when we think about five, 10 years out, you know, it's. We sort of play around with like, okay, what does that look like? If so many workers are displaced, what does that look like? Have you thought about that at all?

61:14 And how does that sort of play into your thinking about what's going on today? Today? History shows it. All right, so like, when the industrial revolution came around, right, a lot of people were upset, right? There was not going to be any specific caneries anymore or there wasn't going to be any specific like you know, other local shops.

61:32 It was going to get modernized and mass produced within a lot of these industries. Right. People lost their jobs, there's no doubt. But it's about how you build that bridge so that they can take on the next job which was, you know, modern day machinery like you know, how to work and operate that, like you know, how to ship, all these different things.

61:50 It, it's a change. Right? But then we had the, you know, mod more modern times. We had the, the dot com blow up like you know, I mean back in like you know, the 90s, right. It was just like we all thought computers were going to replace us back then. We, we, we can't function without a computer, but it hasn't replaced us. Right, right.

62:09 And so we embrace that. It gives a New breed of skill sets and you know, work and education and learning, you know, I mean to continue to, you know, reinvent. And so I think that that's huge. And so we just got to look at history to give us what to do.

62:26 And again the core is with skilling and with education. And so we need to be proactive about that. And as long as we are, it's going to be okay. If we're not and we just let it happen and we continue to act like frogs in a boil, which I just feel like we are.

62:45 We're frogs in this low boil that's getting heat up. That then yeah, you are going to be. It's not going to work out well. Right? I mean like even like let's look at the unionization unionizing your town right now and not just don't un.

63:02 Unionize for pay and benefits. Unionize for skills. Right. Getting the skills that you need to do your job tomorrow. It's, it's like a phone and it is like a computer. It's a necessity. It is not a nice to have and demanding that is part of your overall benefits and compensation.

63:20 And I don't understand why people don't understand that either. So do you don't think that we're going to get to a point where the robots are going to start to take care of themselves and that we're going to basically not need to work so that we get universal basic income and we live our best lives? No, we're not that lucky.

63:38 No, I, I mean, look, if it happens that me and you won't be around, that that's for that generation to figure out. But no, I mean everything comes from us. Computers, laptops, AI, robots. How does it all get made?

63:55 It gets made with us. Right? And you know, a lot of the lunacy. Pick on Musk again a lot of the lunacy out there. Like and even Altman saying this, there's going to be one person billion dollar companies. Well, do you know what that is? That's a pretty lonely life. Yeah, I don't want to be a one person billion dollar company.

64:12 I get my best ideas when I work with a team and we solve problems and we come together and we have differences of opinions and we do really, really cool things because is like you're a billionaire alone. That's great. Go have fun. I rather be poor and be part of the community.

64:31 I love that so much. And I know that we are basically out of time, which makes me so sad. So I just wanted to sort of end with. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to share with us? No, I think we covered a lot and went in a couple different angles.

64:47 I just want to thank you guys, guys for having me on. And I'll keep you posted as to what I'm doing and if there's anybody that wants to reach out to me or follow me, I'm on LinkedIn. I, again, I refuse to be on Twitter or X whatever the hell that is. Now.

65:03 Like there's certain things like I, I'm only on LinkedIn for a reason. I'm not giving anybody else my data. So follow me on LinkedIn if you want to connect. But again, just think about, we have more power than they realize. We're the consumer, we're the driver and there's more of us than there is them.

65:21 And you know, think locally. What can you do to get the skills? How can you help each other? I just think if we start, start doing that and stop listening to all the noise out there, the noise will eventually fizzle and then we'll, next thing you know we'll be leading a, much bigger mission of community to help others, others reach.

65:41 Well, thank you so much, Christy. We really appreciate your time and thank you so much. Likewise. Thank you. We did it. We hope you enjoyed listening to this interview as much as we enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, I was totally invigorated by that conversation.

65:59 Thank you so much for listening. Please don't forget to rate, share and subscribe. It makes a huge difference in the retail of this podcast and by extension this work. So Visit us on YouTube, Instagram and LinkedIn. And of course visit [email protected] and sign up for our newsletter at inclusiongeeks.com Newsletter to stay up to date on all things Inclusion Geeks.

66:23 Stay geeky. Bye.