Aging is for Everyone with Christina Peoples

0:00:07 - Rachel Murray Hello and welcome to the she Geeks Out podcast, where we geek out about workplace inclusion and talk with brilliant humans doing great work, making the world a better and brighter place. I'm Rachel.

0:00:18 - Felicia Jadczak And I'm Felicia. Our guest today is Christina Peoples, the brilliant force behind Gero. What? Christina's here to shake up how we talk about aging, making it real, joyful and something that everyone can relate to. As a gerontologist, a speaker and an advocate, she brings wisdom, warmth and a whole lot of heart to a topic that most people avoid. With storytelling, community and a no BS approach, she's helping us rethink what it means to grow older and who gets to age with dignity. Spoiler alert we think it should be everyone. Seriously, before we get into that, let's just get into it.

0:00:51 - Rachel Murray Felicia, I'm so excited to get into this with you because we have a workshop that is coming up in December about a topic that is really, frankly, kind of the most important thing that I think a lot of us are thinking about, which is the future of work.

I know, it's a big, meaty topic. It's a meaty, it's a heavy topic, and I think what's cool is that when we are thinking about future of work, these days all anyone can think about is AI, but there is so much more to get into. So what is this workshop going to be about?

0:01:30 - Felicia Jadczak Well, thank you for asking. I would be delighted to tell you and to be really open, it's not fully even finished right now because I'm still working on it. So that's the fun part is that it's still in creation mode, but it's a little bit different than some of our other workshops. So, first of all, it definitely is in creation mode, but it's a little bit different than some of our other workshops. So, first of all, it definitely is, of course, public. So if you are listening to this and it's before December, you can sign up for it, which would be really cool. And, don't worry, we will tell you how to do that later on, but it's a public workshop. Usually.

This year, we've been kind of trending more towards doing these hour-long webinars. This is a little bit longer. It's two hours long and the idea is that, as you said, we're trying to talk about and think about what is the future of work, what does it look like, what could it be, and, unlike some of my other workshops, where I'm really facilitating and kind of like educating and leading folks through a learning journey, and I have outcomes and points that I want to make sure that we hit and that you have answers.

Maybe not all of them, but I've definitely got a lot of answers. This one is really like it feels like a big open sandbox for us to play in, and the whole point behind it is that, again, unlike a workshop where you can kind of sign on and just like sit back and let my information wash over you, this is all about co creation, so we're going to really work together and think about what could the future of work look like. And that's exciting because I think that a lot of times, especially this year, we're sort of locked into this cycle of like negativity and fear and stress. And not downplaying any of that, that can be really valid. That is really valid.

And I think for a lot of people, when we're talking about work, we're talking about feeling burned out. We're talking about being stressed out because a lot of changes are happening. We're talking about feeling like you don't love your job but you really can't look for a new job because the hiring market really sucks right now, and so we're kind of more in that mentality. But this is kind of more like if you've ever been to a visioning workshop or if you've ever done manifestation work or even vision boarding, that's kind of the vibe that we're going for. So we're going to go through it.

I'm going to be talking people through and helping us get to this point, really trying to imagine what could a beautiful future of work look like and what could that? You know, what does that look like, sound like, feel like? How does that impact our schedules? What are we working on? And we're going to kind of go through this exercise together, and so it's going to really be a group exercise around really utilizing our imagination and our creativity. So I don't know, rachel, what do you think? Are you ready to sign up for this workshop?

0:04:12 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important, it's really easy and it's so understandable for us to be in a headspace of anxiety because there is so much unknown. There is so much unknown, and I think one thing that is really interesting to explore are some things that we can sort of, you know, make some assumptions that will likely occur in the future. And then there's stuff that's just like we have no idea what could happen, right? I mean, are the aliens going to come down? I don't know.

So, for example, oh, you don't hear my thoughts on that I know we don't Listen to another episode, the latest one with Cindy Aker on that one. But, in all seriousness, you know, whether it's climate change or AI or whatever's going on politically, there is so much uncertainty. So how do we ground ourselves and how do we create an opportunity for us to just not sort of spiral down into this like vortex of like everything is going to go to pot and it's all going to be bad, to being like, okay, well, maybe with all of this uncertainty, maybe there will be systems change and maybe there will be an opportunity for us to co-create a world and a workplace that really works for all of us, which has always been our mission anyway. So I'm really excited for it. I think that there will be some really cool conversations that come out of it, perhaps some tools and some frameworks that folks can use and take it back to their teams and really kind of amplify this idea so that we don't just sort of spiral as we enter 2026?.

0:05:46 - Felicia Jadczak Well, it's going to be a spiraling, but of a different kind. So it's really about also reframing and just refocusing, because instead of a negativity spiral, it's about how can we shift that to a spiral of positivity. And you know, I will be the first to admit like I definitely default with my little anxious brain to thinking about worst case scenarios, and that's something I've worked on for a really long time in places like therapy and I've done my own work on that, and it's hard to unlearn that kind of thought process. But the big shift that I always think about is that reframing of it, which is, instead of thinking to yourself what's the worst that could happen, you flip it and you say what's the best that could happen. And that's really what we're going for with this kind of a workshop.

0:06:31 - Rachel Murray I'm into it, as you know, and I feel very, very fortunate to have entered into this world with a very positive outlook on life. Now, don't get me wrong, there are moments many where you know it's hard, but to sort of have that bent toward that. So I love our dynamic in our relationship because I think we balance each other out.

0:06:56 - Felicia Jadczak Yeah, just in case you're listening, you're like what are they talking about? Rachel is very positive Now again, not 100% of the time, all the time, 24-7, for sure, especially it can be tough in times like 2025. But you definitely, since I've known you for what it's been over 10 years now wow, you are so like one of the most consistently optimistic, positive people I know. And I'm like the Debbie Downer. I'm like, well, sure, but have we talked about the aliens? Or we looked at this, or have we talked about this? And it's definitely, you know, I think we both maybe rubbed off a little bit on each other.

We're balancing each other out a little bit, but I'm not trying to bring people down into, like you know, the depths of where I can go to, but it is something around how do you you know we talk about this in our work in general which is like, how do you hold space for multiple truths? And I think this is one of those examples where it's like, okay, we're not going to discount where we are right now. Or, you know, I don't know who's going to be part of this workshop. Ultimately, everyone's going to be coming in from their own lived experiences and their own things that are going on and gosh it's.

You know we're recording this in early October. I don't even know what's going to happen in December, so I don't know. I don't know where we're all going to be. But at the same time, while we're not going to discount that, we're not going to wallow in that space either, and so it's really about having that balance between it, and you and I have been exploring, especially in the last couple episodes of this podcast, that idea of like really mentally thinking about how to, you know, put our intentions out there and really think about, like, what it is that we want to see in the world and how we want to be. And there's so much emerging, like research and discussion and discourse around that idea of like, if we can, you know, envision what we want, that helps us get there. And if we're envisioning a bad place, then we're going to be more likely to get to a worse place. If we can envision a better place, then maybe we can get there.

0:08:59 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I love that because it's like the worst case scenario is that you're living in a world like your brain is like oh, maybe this will happen, and if it doesn't, well, at least you spent a lot of time in your sort of happier place and not just feeling all the anxiety all the time. Right, because that's not, that's not fun.

0:09:18 - Felicia Jadczak I have a quick question for you on this note. It sounds a little bit out of left field, but I am curious. Have you seen? I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it's a relatively recent documentary about Arnold Schwarzenegger.

0:09:32 - Rachel Murray No, I haven't, although I would probably watch it. I have such mixed feelings.

0:09:37 - Felicia Jadczak It's really interesting. The reason I bring it up is because they do a lot of interviews with him, of course, and he talks at length about when he was younger he decided that he wanted to achieve a goal which I think at the first point was becoming mystery universe, I want to say, and he basically describes how he would like lay in his bed and he would envision himself, he would like mentally go through everything and he would visualize himself winning this accomplishment. And then he basically talks about how every single thing that he's done in his life he envisioned it first. And it's a really interesting take on how to get to your goals, which I don't think a lot of people really talk about from that perspective, you know, I think, especially here in America, we talk about luck, we talk about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, we talk about being like, oh, I'm so grateful, like this happened to me.

And I think again, this is more about shifting that and saying like, okay, yes, we are out of control of a lot of things in our lives, but we, what we do have control over is our brains and our minds, and one thing we can choose to do is we can envision what we would like to see happen and again like just really putting that positive energy out there, not to go full woo-woo, but again we're flirting with it, but that positive energy out there and really kind of think about like what could that look like? And then we don't even have to go all the way down that pathway of how do we get there. But that starts us on that mental pathway and that's where I think we want to be.

0:11:07 - Rachel Murray So I just love that so much and I think it is so needed, especially in a time like right now, where there's so much uncertainty and so much anxiety. Let's get into our heads and let's try to rewire our brains to make them not as scary as the rest of the world. And I will say, even though I haven't watched the documentary, I have heard him in many podcasts and he has talked about his life is really interesting for sure, and I think Debbie Millman's another one that we'll probably talk about at some point in the future who, I think, has explored this with her students as well, and so I'm excited for it. And, yeah, I hope that our lovely listeners will come and join us on this wonderful adventure.

0:11:53 - Felicia Jadczak Yeah, it's definitely gonna be an adventure, for sure. But we have another adventure coming up because we got to talk about what is aging all about and what Jera, what is all about with Christina. So, without further ado, let's welcome to the show, christina.

0:12:07 - Rachel Murray Welcome. Oh, our guest today is Christina Peoples, from Jera. What we were just talking about how to say it, so this is how I'm saying it. So hello and welcome, christina. We are so excited to have you here.

0:12:21 - Christina Peoples Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

0:12:24 - Rachel Murray Yay, well, we're going to just get right into it, because we have some questions that need answering. So the first one is you called yourself an age enthusiast, which we love. Can you take us back to what lit that spark for you?

0:12:38 - Christina Peoples Honestly, it was last year when I realized like I am an age enthusiast. This is my thing. I'm super energized when I talk about aging. I light up when someone says, oh, I never thought about that. And I feel like every single day I see a new angle, a new story, another way to make aging real, and I see it in my garden, in my indoor plants, in my family, all of my relationships. It's just everywhere. Every little piece of thing that goes on in our lives has something to do with us getting older. We just never see it that way, and so this thought of I'm an age enthusiast made me want to learn more about aging and, you know, come up with even more creative ways to share this information with other people.

0:13:44 - Rachel Murray And you know I want to get a little bit before we even get to the other questions, like a little bit about your origin story, like how, I mean, how did you get into gerontology?

0:13:52 - Felicia Jadczak and like a little bit of that. What is what even is gerontology?

0:13:59 - Christina Peoples All right. So I feel like this question. This is so random, but it makes me think of how Fresh Prince used to come on when he was, like in West Philadelphia, born and raised. I feel like I'm really going back.

0:14:16 - Felicia Jadczak I'm from Philadelphia, so the fact that you just dropped that Philly reference makes me so incredibly happy. I can sing the entire song, but I won't Anyway go ahead.

0:14:24 - Christina Peoples I love it. I love it. Let's see First off, gerald Wood. It is a brand that is all about aging. I call it the go-to spot for all things aging. I talk about the different things or changes that our bodies can go through as we get older, which are considered typical age-related changes. Right, so I share that, but I share it in my own way, like with my personality, my sense of humor, all of the things mix in with that. But I also educate people on these changes, because so often people are uneducated when it comes to the things that are common in the aging experience and they immediately go into all these negative myths and tips that could help them enhance their aging experiences.

All of that was as a kid. I always volunteered at nursing homes, which a lot of times have older residents there, and I just love every minute of it. Okay, you could not get me out of these people's faces. Like we know each other now, we're family, we're blood, right. So I loved it and I really feel like I was born with that, because I don't know Just the way I would gravitate towards older people. It just had to be something that was innately in me.

But as I got older I knew I want to work with older people, I didn't know what that was going to look like initially. But when I got to Winston-Salem State that's where I went for undergrad I was like, oh, I'm going to be a nurse, that's it. I'm going to be a nurse, I'm going to work with older people. We are good to go. But I didn't get into the nursing program and so it was like, well, now, what am I going to do? How am I going to do all of this?

And one of my friends told me about the gerontology program. I did not know what that was, but when I looked into it I'm like, well, this is similar to what I want to do. It deals with older adults. And so I changed my major to gerontology and that's really all she wrote. Right? That is how I got into this field. And for those who don't know, gerontology is the study of aging and it really looks at the biological, the psychological and the social aspects of getting older, right? And I just did a reel the other day where I was like you know, people hear that word and they instantly think old age, and it does have a heavy focus on people who are over the age of 60. But I like to tell people it's also about you, because we are looking at the life course. So we're looking at all of the experiences that you've had or that people as a whole in society can go through and how that shapes their aging experience. So I feel like I gave a mouthful, but hopefully that answers the question.

0:18:13 - Felicia Jadczak Now that is great. That is definitely something we wanted to touch on because I feel like, for those people who know, they know, but for a lot of folks, especially those who might be earlier in their life journey, they might not even have heard of this word before. So that's super helpful. And you know, I actually kind of want to go back to what you were saying about volunteering at the nursing homes and I'm just curious, like how did that even come about? Because I feel like, for my own personal experience, I definitely did similar stuff, but I just remember always being dragged to it because I was like you should be doing this.

And as a young child very young, like maybe when I was like six or seven we used to actually live across the street from a nursing home facility and I played violin and I remember my parents making me go walk across the street with my little violin to go play for the residents there, which was totally fine, but, to be frank, it's not something that I would have ever done on my own had I just woken up one day. So I'm just curious for you, like what was that connection initially to even get to that point of starting your gerontology journey, as it were?

0:19:21 - Christina Peoples That's a good question. I was probably dragged too. I just didn't see it as that. Like our elementary school, I guess, had some type of partnership with a local nursing home and so we would go over there for different holidays, like Valentine's Day or Christmas, and we would have cards that we made. There's a picture, I'll send it to you all. We had taken some Valentine's Day cards to the residence and there is a picture of me like laying my head in this older woman's lap Did not know her, okay, but I just it was something that we were made to do, like we had to do it, but I just didn't see it as such because I just really enjoyed it.

So, um, yeah, that that's kind of how I got into that. And then, of course, like you know, when you're like for me, I grew up in church and so there would also be times where we would go to these nursing homes and we would sing and things like that. I loved it Right. Everybody else might have been like we got to go out here. I'm excited, I can't wait to get there, I can't wait to say hey to people walk down the the hallways, go into different rooms. It was really like a delight for me.

0:20:51 - Rachel Murray That's just absolutely incredible because I think that, you know, for people who are not exposed, or exposed only a little bit to folks that are older, there's so much fear around it, right Even though, because it's like brings up our own mortality, our own limits, whatever that might look like. So there's so much fear around it, right Even though, because it's like brings up our own mortality, our own limits, whatever that might look like. So there's so much fear around it. And you were just like not only embracing it, but you're like and I'm going to help other people embrace it as well and as someone who, as we, we've got to get into our own ages, right, Like you were obviously a young person.

I just I was so happy when you were like it's the study of people over 60, because I just turned 50. So I was like cool, I have another decade before I'm officially studied. But again, there's so much anxiety around it, right, and resistance to it. So it's really cool that you are sort of opening this up to other people and I just really appreciate that. And I would love to know, when you were first sort of getting into this, what did you notice was like missing in these kinds of conversations?

0:21:56 - Christina Peoples Yeah. So, just starting out, I saw a huge gap right when I decided to launch Gerald Wood. The main reason why was because I couldn't find a job in this field. I could find jobs. Let me reword that I could find jobs, but there was nobody who was willing to give me like a chance. And so when you kind of get, you know, when you get rejection after rejection, you start to feel a little down on yourself, like maybe there's something wrong with me, maybe I'm not who I thought I was, and so I was in that space and it was like well, I don't know what I'm going to do. And it just came to me of like, just start researching, just start learning more about aging yeah, you got a degree in it, but see what else is out there. So I looked up aging blogs and I noticed that there was a lack of representation of people of color, but most specifically black people, because I'm black, and I was like, no, wait a minute.

Now everybody is aging, like why is there only one voice that's showing up in all of these blogs? And then they also felt very like pot heavy and policy and very like technical Right and those things are important when you're talking about aging, but I think that makes it less accessible. So people can't really identify with getting older when you're throwing all these terms at them and you're talking about stuff that just really doesn't sound interesting. So I saw Elaine and I was like, well, I'll just start my own thing and I'll share my perspective. I'll share things that other friends, you know, amplify Black voices. But also it started out with me doing that.

But over the years it has become multicultural, multi-generational. A lot of people think that this platform is for people 60 plus, but it's not. Like I'm looking at the 20 year old who was in college, I'm looking at the 30 year old who is like not married or doesn't have kids, but they're like, oh, I have always been given this checklist and I've got boxes that I haven't been able to check off. And now I'm, you know, doubting myself, like I'm looking at people in all different phases of their lives and it all started with me just seeing that there was a lack of representation.

0:25:02 - Felicia Jadczak I love that because I feel like age is so contextual too right, because you know, for the three of us, even though we probably represent a little bit of variety in our ages, to like a small child, we're all old, but for us, if we were to go to a nursing home, we might consider ourselves very young, and so I think that's really I love that aspect about your platform and kind of how you're thinking about filling this gap that you saw, and I think the three of us all talk a lot about things like workplace inclusion and you really come at it from the age lens.

Of course, in our sphere, age often is overlooked or it's not the biggest priority or the identity that gets looked at first when we're talking with clients or with other folks who come to us, even though it is an identity group that theoretically we will all be part of at some point and again, given the contextual nature of it, we are already kind of part of this anyway. So, in your experience, what are some kind of like the bigger misconceptions or silent biases that you've seen and how workplaces especially are treating aging and age diversity?

0:26:10 - Christina Peoples Yeah, one that really stands out is the use of words like fresh energy, and it's automatically equating to that's just something for younger people, right? The focus is typically on younger people when you say that. But I look at it like well, older employees bring fresh ideas and fresh energy too. And then there's that assumption that older people lack adaptability while younger people are innovative. But innovation is more than age right and it's more than chasing what's new. Sometimes innovation is reusing information that you've had but giving it a new spin. But I think fresh energy, innovation, things like that are oftentimes only being equated to or only when those words are used.

A lot of times people are looking at someone younger. They don't see it as something that an older person is capable of having, and that is not true, like I said. So that's one thing that has, you know, really stood out to me, because I have met so many older people who've been adapting their entire lives. We adapt. Well, we don't even realize we're adapting. You know what I mean. And so, just to have that perspective and apply it to everyone and make it so general, it's like now we're limiting people, we're blocking people from being there, you know, reaching their maximum within a workplace. Basically.

0:28:09 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I agree with that so much. We certainly see that for sure. And it's just so funny. I keep thinking about how like and it's just this like anxiety about for when you're younger of like what's going to happen when you're older, like I'm just imagining when people are like, oh, you're not going to be this. Maybe it's not even anxiety, maybe it's just like just this lack of awareness of like what their lives are going to be like in 10, 20, 30 years. Right, they're like making these wild kind of assumptions, these wild kind of assumptions. So I'm so glad that you're there to break some of those myths and help younger folks think about what their lives might be like, even though it's kind of wild to think about what the world will be like in 30 years.

But you know that's a whole other podcast episode, but we sort of touched a little bit on this based on some of the work that you've been doing. But I would love to hear a little bit about sort of the intersectional nature of how age discrimination can show up. So, for example, you know, we might see something different for how a Black woman in her 50s might be treated versus a white man in his 50s when we just focus on age. What are we missing? Are there other sort of nuances there that you've seen?

0:29:23 - Christina Peoples Yeah. So aging is very complex, right, there's this song. It's like there's levels to this, there's levels to aging, there's layers to aging, right? So when you think about intersectionality, which is looking at the overlapping identities, you've got age, you have race, gender, education, religion, like all of these different things that are how you're identified, but they're also at times working for you, sometimes working against you. It just depends on where you are right. But overall, people don't see how deep aging is. It's not a surface level type of thing.

And so when you think about a Black woman who is in her 50s, right, she's going to face the stereotypes of being older, in her 50s if people perceive it as such. It just depends because you know we've already talked about this, but so it could be stereotypes related to her age. It could be stereotypes because she's a woman, and then there are the stereotypes because she is Black. And I read this article a few years back. There was like a short study that was done where they had interviewed, I think they interviewed like white people and black people and they were asking um, you know about ageism? And one of the participants who was black was like well, I don't really know if I've experienced ageism because I have been experiencing discrimination since day one. Soon as I came out the womb, like there were already things working against me. So I can't pinpoint if the discrimination was my age, if it was my race, if it was my gender, was it all three Like it just shows how complex it really is, how complex it really is.

And then when you look at a white male who's in their 50s, there could be the discrimination based on age. But then there's also more privileges that have been experienced as well. So he could be in a room full of younger people and feel like the lesser of it, right, like oh, they have all these ideas and maybe I don't have anything Like there could be those moments where he could feel inadequate. But overall, within that workplace, when you're thinking about all of these layers, about all of these layers, who is closer to power and privilege, who is furthest away based on those layers, is what's going to play a part in all of this. Does that answer the question?

0:32:35 - Rachel Murray It does, and in fact I was thinking about this as you were saying. This is the other piece to this too. Is that for, in that sort of scenario, gentleman, he that might be the first, as you kind of were alluding to is the first time that he might ever really be experiencing some form of discrimination, as opposed to maybe other folks with other, different identities. So that is like that hits in a different way. Right, you've gone your whole life without sort of really experiencing any sort of discrimination that you could sort of feel, and then all of a sudden hit an age ages and might be like whoa, that's the most important thing ever, as opposed to all the other things.

0:33:13 - Felicia Jadczak So thank you for sharing that, yeah, and I think it's like you know, the context piece is still so important too because, like you mentioned earlier, how you know, like you know fresh, fresh ideas and things like that, and I'm sure Rachel feels the same way too.

But, like I know, we both came up in in the tech area and that was a huge issue where it was a constant struggle because, you know, fresh faced new grads right out of college were viewed as like they could do no wrong. They had all the ideas and a lot of times our ideas were fine, but a lot of times they were like not great, and it was just because they were new that they were elevated. So that's one context. Another context is cultural, and so I'm curious in your experience, how have you seen different cultural or even like generational values shape the way that people are showing up at work or even how they're seen by others? Because you know, we talked a little bit about intersectionality, but then there's also a cultural element that we're going to layer on top of this as well. Are you seeing differences there?

0:34:11 - Christina Peoples Yeah, that's definitely another layer, Like you said. It's funny that you asked this because, like, I just started reading this book called Breaking the Age Codes by Dr Becca Levy and in the book, like in the beginning, she shares how she traveled to Japan because she was curious and wanted to know how do people see aging in Japan? And they have this holiday called and I'm maybe I'm probably not pronouncing this the right way, but it's Karo no Hai and it is basically where older people are celebrated and they're honored for their contributions and, you know, they're shown all of this respect for the role that they play in society. And it really stood out to me because it shows how cultural values shape the way we treat people as we age, even the way we look at ourselves. I think about. In Black culture, for example, there's a strong emphasis on respecting our elders and making them proud and listening to their wisdom and carrying their lessons with us. And that cultural context. It gives aging a sense of dignity. And then, when you have the generational values that come with that right, someone who grew up in a time where staying at one company for 30 years was seen as success is going to show up differently than someone who may have been raised in a time where flexibility and change is valued. But both of these approaches are valid.

But if the workplace doesn't recognize the cultural pieces and the generational lenses that people are bringing with them, then they risk mislabeling people, they risk giving into the different stereotypes that come with workplace right environments.

And so just thinking about that, thinking of the cultural lens and who I am outside of work and who I'm bringing into the workplace and how I'm going to interact with the 50-year-old Black woman that we mentioned, the 50-year-old white male, you're bringing your biases, your experiences that you've had with different cultures and different generations.

You bring all of that into this workplace and it's important Like I tell myself this all the time it is so important to become aware of those biases because there's no way around not having them, like we also in this book. We have them. We start developing these when we're like three, four months old. We start developing certain biases. All of it is a lot of times unconscious, but it's traveling with us. It's um, there's this term, I don't think it's official, but it's called stereotypical baggage. We're bringing that baggage with us and so in the workplace it is so important that we become aware of it, aware that we are carrying those things and that we do not allow it to mix with how we are treating people who we're giving the opportunities to, who we are seeking help from all of the things.

0:38:11 - Felicia Jadczak Yeah, I love that because and I love that term stereotypical baggage it's such a good one. We'll definitely put that away in our little toolbox or later. I was thinking a lot, as as you were sharing just now, about a former coworker that I used to have back in the day at a tech company that I used to work for, and when I joined I was probably in my I want to say like early 30s maybe, and she was maybe in her 60s, so again older, in this age range that we've been talking a little bit about. And I still remember how we had a new manager who was a guy in his 40s or 50s and he struggled a little bit at first because he was trying to manage this coworker of mine as if she were me, as you know, right out of grad school, like eager to get ahead, wanting to climb the career ladder, wanting to get ahead and like take on big projects. And she was like I'm cool, like I'm good, I just want to do my job. I don't want a promotion, I don't want to get ahead, I've got a five-year plan and it's going to be coming. You know, going to be getting out of here at some point, like I'm going to go to retire, like I do not want to move ahead, I just want to be left alone to do my job.

And we shared an office and this is why I knew a little bit more about this than maybe I would have typically. But I just remember her always complaining to me about the fact that she was like, oh my gosh, she just doesn't get it. Like I don't want to, like take on any stretch projects, like I just want to do my job. I mean, he finally got it eventually. But I think that's another thing that comes up a lot for people where they're like, hey, like I'm good at what I do, just let me, you know, do what I do. Like stop trying to manage me up or, you know, stop trying to push me because, like I'm actually looking to a different pathway forward, not necessarily what other people are looking for. So just wanted to share that, because that was kind of like percolating around in my head. I was having flashbacks to being 30s and listening to my co-worker.

0:40:04 - Christina Peoples No, that's a good example, though, like that is a really good example. There's that assumption that everybody wants to climb that ladder. Yeah, everybody wants to get to the top, but no, there's some people who are content with where they are and that is okay. But yeah, I do to that point, to that example. You see that a lot where there's the assumption that someone older may not want to be, you know, elevated to the next um level or whatever, and then there's the assumption that there are younger people who do. But approaching any employee in the workplace means that you have to look at that individual, you really have to get to know that person. That the playing field everybody is like in the same mind space or head space, you know, because that's not true.

0:41:09 - Rachel Murray Christina, you just answered the next question I had for you. What that was so good, perfect, and I do want to like officially ask it to see if you want to expand on it. But I also was thinking a lot about what you were saying and, phylicia, thank you so much for sharing that story too, because I think it is really important. I was thinking contextually too, about how the stereotypical baggage and how we've all been socialized and you know, from such a young age, right, and I'm thinking about, like, for some reason, golden Girls has been like popping up in the zeitgeist recently, and so one way that's been popping up is like they've been the whatevers have been talking about how the Golden Girls were actually, like, you know, in their 50s, like that's what their age was, and you look at them now and you see women now in their 50s and it's like what is even happening, right, like it's such a huge difference. And then I think a lot about because I'm like this gray hair lady.

Now, right, I decided to stop coloring my hair and I rail against the fact that, like so much, so many women are still dyeing their hair that are, you know, celebrities Like my one, who I just wish that she would stop dyeing her hair is like Julie Louis-Dreyfus. I'm like. I know you are not. I know you do not have black hair anymore and you literally dyed your hair in a television show partially gray, or in a movie partially gray to look older, even though I know that that's probably closer to your natural hair. Anyway, it's fine, it's my own issue. Anyway, it's fine, it's my own issue. But my point is that it feels like it's not only like we're socialized at these young ages, but it just living with all of the stereotypical baggage, especially people who are like managers and leaders you mentioned. The one really great point is treating people as individuals, which we certainly talk about, but are there other ways to think about really like supporting folks that from you know and expanding their definition of innovation, for example, including everyone in the workplace?

0:43:22 - Christina Peoples Yeah, yeah, I mean there are definitely other ways, but surely the number one way is to treat people like as an individual, which is what they are, but also, like I had mentioned, the awareness. I think we lack a lot of awareness, right, really thinking about what we're thinking about or thinking like, ah, now if I say this what will really be the outcome?

I think a lot of workplaces. There's so many personalities, so many backgrounds, just so many things, but rarely do you see people truly trying to connect with each other, really having those intergenerational connections where you have someone older connected with someone younger and they are both exchanging their fresh ideas right, their fresh energy. They are having this exchange with each other and as far as like the piece where you know leaders can expand, if they focus on how to get their employees connected and how to, and if they see the benefit of the connection, like I do think that they have to see that there is a benefit of intergenerational connections and there is a benefit of having that exchange. But I do believe that if they did this, this could really dismantle ageism, which is oftentimes like the root issue. There's other issues, there's other biases. You know that come with it.

But ultimately in the workplace a lot of times it is an issue with age and how we perceive aging, and so we tend to look at curiosity as an example, as something that only young people can have. But if we look at it as everybody is curious I haven't stopped being curious. Have y'all stopped being curious, right? So we're. We all remain curious, a lot like throughout our lives. It shows up in different ways, so it may look different than what it looks like when you know we're 30 and it may look different than what it looked like when we're 20. But if leaders created an environment that brings about curiosity, being open to direction and not looking at it as, oh, this young person is giving me direction, right, being open to that and being open to when someone older is giving direction, and looking at innovation as something that is available across all ages, then you won't see all of these workplaces just heavily focused on youth. You'll see that there's now this environment where it's really truly age-inclusive.

0:46:53 - Felicia Jadczak I love that. One thing that comes up for us sometimes when we're working with clients is also from a just low-level practical tip I actually was just talking with Rachel about this the other day. We were joking separately Is just take out dates from things like a job or like a resume, because it's so easy, even if people don't intend to, to discriminate based off of looking at when someone graduated from a higher ed institution, for example. Right, but yes, like I think the mindset shift is a huge one, because we have to really just like get into that mentality of being more open and less, you know, restrictive. I have a question that we did not ask you in advance, and so if your answer is no, I'll just continue on. But I am curious if you saw the movie the Substance.

0:47:43 - Christina Peoples No, what is that about?

0:47:45 - Felicia Jadczak No, definitely watch it, it's called the.

Stomp. So it is a, it is a like. It's a bit of like a body horror movie. It came out last year I think, and it's with Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley and basically just as like a quick TLDR overview.

Demi Moore is this like beautiful fitness instructor and she's, you know, got like a hot body and she's super popular. She's like a big star. Her face is in all these billboards. And then she's like getting a little older and she gets kind of pushed out in favor of you know like different, you know different, younger, whatever, whatever. So she gets told and it's a whole thing and it's all about aging and she gets you know, sort of like given this heads up that like, oh, if you go to this like really sketchy warehouse and like you know, pay some money and get the substance, and then like it'll like make you feel young or whatever, and then it goes into this whole thing. So I won't go too much deeper because if you do end up watching it like you'll want to watch it, and then some people who are listening may not have seen it either.

But it's just this whole dynamic between, like, youth and age and like the struggle between that, and it does get very much into like body horror type stuff.

So if you do not like that, then it's not the movie for you.

I will admit I did not love it because it's not totally my jam, but it does present a lot of interesting conversation around this idea of the struggle between youth and age and what we've been talking about already around the process of aging. And so I was just asking that because this was going to be my lead into my next question, which I will just go to now, which is what are some ways that we can support ourselves and each other when we're noticing things like shame, fear, self-doubt and, for those of you who have watched the Substance, so we don't have to go, take some weird thing and like rip ourselves apart and, like you know, remake ourselves as we're aging. We're not forced to like feel like we have to dye our hair unless we really want to, or that we have to, you know, wear certain clothes Like I'm a millennial woman. I'm like I'm sorry, like sorry, gen Z, but like I'm just going to continue to like, I guess, be an old lady now because I like my millennial outfits.

0:50:02 - Rachel Murray And I'm never, I'm not going to wear tube socks. I just I won't do it yeah sorry, I won't do it.

0:50:07 - Felicia Jadczak Grew up in the 80s. A lot of trauma around tube socks Not going to happen. My ankles are out and proud. But how can we support ourselves, like you know, especially when we're in spaces that do prioritize or prize youth, it's a tough struggle.

0:50:23 - Christina Peoples It's not funny, but it's just funny Cause when you said that, I thought about that like as a millennial. I've heard people come from the denim jackets and I'm like, but I love me a good denim jacket. What do you mean?

0:50:40 - Rachel Murray Yeah, I'm like. I just want to say I very quickly. I appreciate that there has been. I have seen very little. There was a push to bring acid wash jeans back and it has been rejected by it needed to be.

0:50:56 - Christina Peoples I am not a fan of acid wash, thank you.

0:50:59 - Felicia Jadczak Thank you. That's where it's like. The youth needs to learn and listen and learn. They did.

0:51:04 - Rachel Murray They did. I feel like that was good. That was a good one.

0:51:08 - Christina Peoples They did, they did. I feel like that was good, that was a good one. That is so funny. But this movie that you were just talking about into that.

That would cause someone to want to make all of these changes, especially like the whole beauty culture of this is what makes you beautiful and you think about, like with women, we're constantly being told how we should look, and when we don't look, like, whatever the standard is now, hey, somewhere along the way you messed up, you're not aging the way you're supposed to be aging, cause you shouldn't look this way and it's like, yes, I should, cause this is like how my body is aging. And I wish like I could just do, like, have a thing where I could just tell people over and over and over how unique our Asian experiences are and it's not a one size fits all thing, but we operate like it is. So that was just to what you said, but I am going to look this movie up because I never heard of it. But to answer your question, I would say the first step is always going to be to name the thing. So, whatever shame that you're feeling or whatever type of fear a person is feeling as they're getting older name.

It Just go ahead, say it out loud, because then we're not allowing those things to thrive. When we remain silent about whatever it is, it's thriving and it's the thing that's in control. It's controlling our actions, our interactions with people, all of the things. So, definitely saying out loud, I'm noticing some changes, but it doesn't mean I have less to offer, and that's how we break those stigmas right, I would say. The second thing is to surround yourself with people who affirm you and remind you that you got the juice right. You are of value.

0:53:46 - Felicia Jadczak You have to see the substance, because you will listen back to this conversation and you will hear that phrase you got the juice in a totally different fashion. But yes, I'm so sorry to interrupt, but please watch and then come back and listen to this part again. Watch it.

0:54:03 - Christina Peoples I really will. But yeah, just just reminding yourself that you know, having people who can remind you that you've got the juice, having people when you're not in a place where you can challenge the feelings that are coming up, you've got someone else around you who can challenge it. Right, look like being a part of certain peer groups, having a mentor, having those intergenerational relationships where you can both give and receive support. And then there's reframing. So, instead of looking at aging as something that is taking away from you, more so looking at the things that you've gained along the way, whether it's, you know, creativity, a new outlook, a new perspective, right From all of your lived experiences. All of that can really, really, really, really help us in professional spaces, but also, like in our own personal lives.

0:55:13 - Rachel Murray Oh, that's so good. Thank you for sharing that. And I have one more question. That was not switching things up a little bit on you, christina. I hope that's okay, but I feel like you can roll with it because you got all that juice. You know, I do. I see it. I was thinking about, as we were talking, one of the issues around I think that we get in our heads about when it comes to aging, and why we have a lot of these biases is because aging is tied to health. Biases is because aging is tied to health. And I think about how people are making assumptions, because we were talking about external appearances, right, we don't know what is happening internally. We're making assumptions based on how people are looking on what's happening for them inside and we don't know. I don't know if you've thought about that and how that maybe people could reframe some of their thinking around, making that connection, that direct connection between how their body looks on the outside and what's actually happening on the inside.

0:56:18 - Christina Peoples Yeah, it's all going to start with our language and what we're saying, and how judgmental we are of ourselves, right? How judgmental we are of ourselves, right when you said that, how people a lot of times link aging with health. That is so true because we think our health and our mobility and all the things are supposed to decline as we get older. It's not really true. It can change. Yes, right, and depending on you know whatever types of illnesses you have, your genetics, all of those things that'll play a role in this. But environment and lifestyle choices, how we talk about ourselves, who we're connected with, that is what's really influencing our external and internal pieces. Or you know how we feel externally and how we feel internally. And so if you have all those factors and if they're not so positive you know you may have, you may be in an environment physically like where your home is, and it's not the best for you. Your inside, your home, may not be the best for you. You may have some, you know, strained relationships going on in there. You may have clutter or other things related to just mental challenges or mental illness or what have you.

All of that is what influences our aging experience. It just goes back to what we've been talking about, this entire conversation of how complex it is and you can't really pinpoint one thing. And so, because of that, the easiest thing that we can do is just blame it on our age. It's so easy. I can just be like, oh, it's because it's because I'm in my 30s that I'm dealing with this. I know, that's why I have a gut and that is why I have these wrinkles. No, it's not. Your body is going through changes. Your hormones hormones love to play games.

0:58:42 - Rachel Murray Don't get me started. Well, you know what? You know what it's funny about that is because Felicia and I we have talked about this and I, I give her crap sometimes because she's like eight years younger than I am and every now and then she's like my body hurts because I'm so old and I'm like girl.

0:59:02 - Felicia Jadczak I can't, but it is a. It is a good point you bring up Christina and I was sorry. I feel like, feel like this is my podcast episode where I'm just asking what movies y'all have seen. But another one I want to ask have you both seen the movie Thelma? Not Thelma and Louise Thelma, no, no, I think you'll especially love it, christina, and I actually really like it a lot. I've seen it a couple times now, so maybe you will as well, rachel.

But really, briefly, the reason I bring it up is because it is about this 90-year-old woman named Thelma and she gets scammed by one of those phone scammers who, like they basically pretend that they're her grandson and he's been kidnapped and she gives him $10,000. And then she's like F it, I'm gonna go get my money back. And she's like 90 and she goes and like has a whole adventure. It's the cutest movie ever. But the reason I brought it up is because when I was watching it the first time, I could not stop laughing the whole like.

First, you know whatever, it was like 20 minutes of the movie because I was turning to my husband. I was like, oh my God, like not only is this me like right now, but also I feel like this is going to be me when I'm 90, because I had bad feet. So I wear orthotics and like special sneakers and she basically wears like the same exact sneakers. I have hearing aids. She's got a little hearing aids and there's a whole thing about hearing aids in the movie. It's really funny and I was like I feel seen and then like there's like all this stuff about like them falling down and like I've had my share of a spill. So I just was like OMG, is this me like right now and is it me in the future? So you know, to both your points, like you know, we can, age is kind of like both what you make of it. It's just a number. It's how you feel, it's how we frame, how we feel All that good stuff. But it's a really good movie.

1:00:53 - Christina Peoples You. That's good stuff, but it's a really good movie. You should totally watch it. Well, one thing that you just said is how you're younger than her, but you've also experienced things that she's experienced, and I feel like people only think this is something that just happens to older people. Only older people fall. Only older people need a hearing aid. Only older people need orthotics. But what you just said was so beautiful, because that's not the case. And when people who are, you know, younger feel like, oh, I shouldn't have to wear orthotics, like I'm too young for this, and they start shaming themselves, that language, how they talk to themselves, all of that turns negative.

If we were to hear more stories about younger people also having challenges, also having limitations or concerns that come up, that alone could really change how we look at getting older, because then it's like, oh, so it doesn't just happen. I always say people think that once you turn 65, as an example, that that is when the aging experience begins, that's when you're aging. You know, mom is 67 now. She's aging, but from birth, all the way through, we've all been getting older, and so it's just the messages that have been sent to us from childhood on that are telling us what's supposed to be normal or whatever right. But again, if we were to share more of those stories about our challenges one, we're now, you know, giving the middle finger to shame and judgments that we've had inside and we're also opening that door for other people to have permission to do the same thing. So I love that you said that when you were making the comparison between you and Thelma.

1:03:02 - Felicia Jadczak You have to watch it. I love her so much I would be so privileged to be like her in my 90s. If I get to that point and that was something that was coming to mind too was around that reframing piece is. I just keep thinking of this phrase. Like you know, aging is a privilege and not everyone gets to age.

And to your point about that shame piece, you know I mentioned really briefly, and you know long-time listeners know this, it's no secret. So I am partially deaf. I do wear hearing aids and I've been wearing them since I was seven years old. So I have a lot of distinct memories of going with my grandmother to the same audiologist, sitting in the office and being the only child there with a ton of older people and then getting looks when they would call me in for my appointment because they would assume people would assume that I was just, you know, keeping her company. But the reason I mentioned that is because I you know it's been a very long time since I've been wearing hearing aids and I've had a lot of time to get over any kind of shame or embarrassment.

I don't have any of those feelings now but I see, with my family members, like my dad, for example, who was in his seventies and, you know, had to get hearing aids in the last several years, and like there's been a lot of resistance to it, and so it's actually been really helpful. Well, I don't know if he would say this, but I think it's been helpful that I can sort of say, hey, like you know, let me talk you through it. Or like I can help, like we share, you know, batteries. Or like you know I can help talk through, like how stuff works. Or, you know, be more open with how I'm modeling my experience, and so I think that's another example of how, like this intergenerational stuff can really help with people as we all go through our own processes of aging and what that looks like for each of us, which is, of course, it's going to be a very individualized experience, but there are so many commonalities across the board as well.

1:04:50 - Christina Peoples Absolutely. That's like a new way for y'all to bond.

1:04:54 - Felicia Jadczak So hey, I don't think he wants to bond in that way, but no, he probably doesn't, he probably doesn't.

1:04:59 - Christina Peoples But you know, and hear me when I say like, when I share all of this, I always tell people I am not one to try to paint aging in like a super positive light, because it's not always positive. And so what could be a challenge for your dad, Like for you, you said it's no longer a challenge for you. Right, I'm all for. You know, being empathetic when someone is now looking at this as like, hey, this is hard. So I don't try to, you know, dismiss it. I don't try to be like, oh, come on, I just tell them, I share tips of ways that they can navigate, like whatever that hard time is or whatever feeling they may be having as it relates to their aging experience, because it's just not always positive. If you're used to life looking one way, and now it's, you know, gone left in your mind to of what it used to look like, you can grieve that and, and it's okay, that is also part of getting older.

1:06:15 - Rachel Murray Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that and, felicia, thank you for sharing also. Really appreciate you. Well, our time is almost up, so we just have one final question. Our time is almost up, so we just have one final question. What's next? What's the vision for Gerald? What? I got to say it twice, yes, yeah, just want to hear what your vision is, how you hope it continues to shape, not just how we talk about aging, but how we really live and work across all ages.

1:06:44 - Christina Peoples Ultimately, my hope is that Gerald Wood just continues to help people see aging as something that we all share and something that we can approach with intention, pride, possibility. I hope that it continues to push people to think more intentionally about their own aging experience, their own journey, whether they are 25 or whether they are 55. Right, because how we live, how we work, how we prepare, is all going to shape our choices and our outlook as we get older. So that is the main goal. As far as like where it is headed. I know it's going up, right, but I didn't even see all the things that have come about in the past 70 years when I was just like I'm just gonna do a little research, I'm gonna start a little blog. I didn't see all of this. So all I can say is like where it is headed. I know that it's going to elevate, but the ultimate goal is really to continue encouraging and empowering people to look at their own aging experience and figure out how do I want this to look as I continue getting older.

1:08:12 - Felicia Jadczak I love that and, yeah, that's so, just like Rachel said, beautiful, and we wish you the best of luck as you continue to elevate in this journey and age. If people want to learn more, if they want to follow you, follow Jerro. What learn more about? What Gerontology is all about? Where could people find you?

1:08:31 - Christina Peoples So they can find me on YouTube. It's at Jerro what G-E-R-R-O-W-H-A-T. I'm also on TikTok same handle, and on Instagram it's Jerro underscore what. And then I also have a website, which is wwwjerowhatcom.

1:08:54 - Felicia Jadczak Awesome. Thank you, Christina. Thank you so much.

1:08:58 - Christina Peoples Thank you, I enjoyed this Same.

1:09:02 - Felicia Jadczak All right, we did it. That was amazing and we sincerely hope that you enjoyed listening to our interview with Christina as much as we enjoyed the conversation.

1:09:10 - Rachel Murray Yes, thank you so much for listening and please don't forget to rate, share and subscribe. It makes a huge difference in the reach of this podcast and, by extension, this work. So visit us on YouTube, instagram and LinkedIn and sign up for our newsletter at inclusiongeekscom forward slash newsletter to stay up to date on all things inclusion geeks, and please don't forget to stay geeky. Bye.